The Analog DAC

[LL21]

Certainly you can, they're cheap things - about 3 cents each in a sizeable volume - I buy full reels. As you can imagine, I use quite a few

http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/TDK/MPZ2012S102A/?qs=%2fha2pyFaduhOuNZScbHe%2fvQQza9t9FbZXD82NWnA%2fbI%3d

Thanks...so if i were to get some...what do i do with them? how do they get installed? sorry...really, really non-techie. i have only changed fuse once...and i kept the distributor on the phone while i did it...

 

[rockitman]

That has been my own experience - mainly from developing DACs based on AD1955 with external I/V. When I first heard multibit (NOS) after listening to my AD1955 implementations for several months its what I noticed as lacking - soundstage depth, ambience retrieval. The TDA1543 which was my first introduction to multibit was flat in comparison - the content was compressed (in space) towards the front of the soundstage and I couldn't hear the acoustic space where the performance was recorded.



Yet to gain these qualities with S-D it turns out you have to sacrifice other desirable qualities of analog - timbral accuracy and dynamics. So which do you value most?

I've since got my multibit designs to have the soundstaging I was getting with S-D, and some incidentally. So its not an inherent feature of multibit to lose soundstaging and air, it depends on implementation.

Thanks for the explanation opus.

 

[opus111]

Thanks...so if i were to get some...what do i do with them? how do they get installed? sorry...really, really non-techie. i have only changed fuse once...and i kept the distributor on the phone while i did it...

Well first you gotta have a SQ problem to solve - too much detail, or sibilance is the problem these solve rather nicely. But it doesn't sound like you have that problem - your DAC is TDA1541A which is bipolar, so not prone to glitching. Really these are solutions to problems where the electronics is of, let's say the 'cost-effective' kind - opamps, S-D DACs and the like, where they work a treat.

 

[LL21]

Well first you gotta have a SQ problem to solve - too much detail, or sibilance is the problem these solve rather nicely. But it doesn't sound like you have that problem - your DAC is TDA1541A which is bipolar, so not prone to glitching. Really these are solutions to problems where the electronics is of, let's say the 'cost-effective' kind - opamps, S-D DACs and the like, where they work a treat.

Thanks! I will say, the Zanden is far better now with HRS dampers under and on top of both the PSU and the DAC itself. I cannot wait til i can get my hands on the matching transport...i sound like a broken record...hah! a joke only an audiophile could make.

 

[Priaptor]

Just had my first 24 hour session with the Analog. The system I am using is Magico Q1s, the Constellation Centaur Stereo amp with the Analog DAC (standard "cheap" power base) connected direct to the Centaur via High Fidelity CT-1 single ended cables with MIT Oracle Matrix HD 90 Rev 1 speaker cables.

As this is a system for my second home, I do not yet own the Analog DAC as it is a demo and am comparing it to my main system which consists of Nola Baby Grand II, REF 5SE, REF 250s and EMM DAC2X but running the DAC2x through the REF 5SE into the Centaur and Q1s to do the comparison.

I have not yet run the Analog DAC through its course with my server as yet. Just set it up, but did spend a glorious night last night, listening to high res and redbook CDs through the Transport that Vince from MSB was kind enough to send, in order for me to get a reference as to how they know the DAC should sound. My first 24 hour impression is that this DAC is a real winner. I reserve full judgement until I test out the USB module. From the very first note, I knew this was a winner. It is also gorgeous to look at. The only negative so far is the need to run it single ended.

I will continue to post the more I listen, but right now it looks very promising. I am also going to get a day or two with their decked out Diamond Series although I have no desire to purchase it given the price range, but will be able to give a comparison between it, the Analog and the DAC2X.

 

[edorr]

Just had my first 24 hour session with the Analog. The system I am using is Magico Q1s, the Constellation Centaur Stereo amp with the Analog DAC (standard "cheap" power base) connected direct to the Centaur via High Fidelity CT-1 single ended cables with MIT Oracle Matrix HD 90 Rev 1 speaker cables.

As this is a system for my second home, I do not yet own the Analog DAC as it is a demo and am comparing it to my main system which consists of Nola Baby Grand II, REF 5SE, REF 250s and EMM DAC2X but running the DAC2x through the REF 5SE into the Centaur and Q1s to do the comparison.

I have not yet run the Analog DAC through its course with my server as yet. Just set it up, but did spend a glorious night last night, listening to high res and redbook CDs through the Transport that Vince from MSB was kind enough to send, in order for me to get a reference as to how they know the DAC should sound. My first 24 hour impression is that this DAC is a real winner. I reserve full judgement until I test out the USB module. From the very first note, I knew this was a winner. It is also gorgeous to look at. The only negative so far is the need to run it single ended.

I will continue to post the more I listen, but right now it looks very promising. I am also going to get a day or two with their decked out Diamond Series although I have no desire to purchase it given the price range, but will be able to give a comparison between it, the Analog and the DAC2X.

Keep us posted. I really should not be writing this because I am still trying to sell my DAC2X, but I am listening to Anuoar Brahem / Jan Garbarek's album "Madar" as we speak, and the MSB Signature IV is a lot more musically involving than what I recall from the EMM labs. In fact, I find Garbarek's very high pitched saxophone playing unbearable on most audio system. On the MSB I really enjoy his playing.

Note that this is WITHOUT the Femto clock. It will go back the the shop this week for upgrade of powerbase to diamond level, and next comes the Femto 140. I could not be happier. If you are planning to audition the Diamond / Galaxy combo "just for kicks", be prepared to dip into your financial reserves. The price / performance sweetspot is probably a Platinum + Femto 140 or Signature with Femto 140. This stuff is like crack.

 

[hvbias]

Can the Analog DAC output a balanced signal? I know it is a single ended DAC with 2 DAC modules, but it looks like there is some sort of XLR adapter in the back of the MSB pictures.

And does anyone know which DAC modules it uses (ie from the Plat, Signature, etc) or is it a custom module?

 

[edorr]

Can the Analog DAC output a balanced signal? I know it is a single ended DAC with 2 DAC modules, but it looks like there is some sort of XLR adapter in the back of the MSB pictures.

And does anyone know which DAC modules it uses (ie from the Plat, Signature, etc) or is it a custom module?

It does have XLR connectors but it is not a balanced design. MSB advises against connected through XLR, because it does not sound as good as the single ended connections. The comparison chart says the analog uses 2 x 25 bit DAC. The signature uses 25 bit DAC (4x) as well. Not sure if it is the same.

 

[Priaptor]

Can the Analog DAC output a balanced signal? I know it is a single ended DAC with 2 DAC modules, but it looks like there is some sort of XLR adapter in the back of the MSB pictures.

And does anyone know which DAC modules it uses (ie from the Plat, Signature, etc) or is it a custom module?

It is meant for SE only. Edorr is correct.

My prediction is this DAC (while still expensive) is going to be a HUGE success. Extremely captivating. I am listening to DSD 128 as I write.

I actually prefer SE BUT like my main system which is ARC more and more amps are XLR only.

 

[asiufy]

MSB uses DAC modules of its own design. Actually, the difference between the first two levels of the DAC IV are only on these modules, only the Diamond being significantly different. So if you start with the entry-level model, you can upgrade simply by buying the new DAC modules.
The same happens with the clock module. The new DAC IV Plus already comes with the Femto 140, but if you want, you can upgrade to the full Femto clock, and it's just unplug/plug.
edorr, you don't need to send your DAC back, you can just order the new power supply and the clock, pop open the hood, and install yourself!
I didn't knew the Analog DAC has only 2 DAC modules. My Diamond has 4. Oh, and I preferred it single ended as well, hooked to my darTZeel. I used the same brand/model cables.
hvbias, the DAC IV has XLR output, if you want.


alexandre

 

[edorr]

MSB uses DAC modules of its own design. Actually, the difference between the first two levels of the DAC IV are only on these modules, only the Diamond being significantly different. So if you start with the entry-level model, you can upgrade simply by buying the new DAC modules.
The same happens with the clock module. The new DAC IV Plus already comes with the Femto 140, but if you want, you can upgrade to the full Femto clock, and it's just unplug/plug.
edorr, you don't need to send your DAC back, you can just order the new power supply and the clock, pop open the hood, and install yourself!
I didn't knew the Analog DAC has only 2 DAC modules. My Diamond has 4. Oh, and I preferred it single ended as well, hooked to my darTZeel. I used the same brand/model cables.
hvbias, the DAC IV has XLR output, if you want.


alexandre

Nope. The powerbase upgrade involves physical changing components in my existing powerbase chassis to diamond level and putting a new sticker on it. Not sure this would be a DIY job..... MSB wants it back. In fact the DAC itself will also receive some board upgrades to get to current specs.

 

[asiufy]

Ah, you're upgrading your existing base, not replacing it... I thought it'd be easier to get a new one
You bought the gear used, right? In that case, it's better to send it back to factory anyway, for this kind of upgrade. Since I live on the wrong side of the world, it's a huge bonus that MSB can be upgraded on site.


alexandre

 

[Elberoth]

Priaptor - don't borrow the Diamond DAC if you have no intention to buy one. There is a big difference between the AnalogDAC (which is good) and the Diamond DAC (which is the best I've heard). Once you hear it - there is no going back.

I had the Diamond DAC in my system for 2 weeks, and the Anlog DAc just before that.

 

[bplexico]

Hi all - I have been fortunate to audition the Analog DAC for a period of time which I was very pleased with (including stock power supply). I am weighing options between that and the following combination, anyone hear having heard both have thoughts (p.s. I am trying to arrange a demo of the latter)? The latter combination is slightly double the cost of the Analog DAC. I don't require the volume control as I am going into a pre amp, and single ended is fine.

Platinum DAC IV Plus
Signature Powerbase
USB 384Hz input

Barr

 

[hvbias]

Hi all - I have been fortunate to audition the Analog DAC for a period of time which I was very pleased with (including stock power supply). I am weighing options between that and the following combination, anyone hear having heard both have thoughts (p.s. I am trying to arrange a demo of the latter)? The latter combination is slightly double the cost of the Analog DAC. I don't require the volume control as I am going into a pre amp, and single ended is fine.

Platinum DAC IV Plus
Signature Powerbase
USB 384Hz input

Barr

From what I have gleaned from an email to MSB, if you don't need balanced (big savings due to half the DAC modules) The Analog DAC will be better than the DACIV Platinum (without Galaxy). This was before the Plus was out, so I'm not exactly sure what that added sound wise.

 

[edorr]

From what I have gleaned from an email to MSB, if you don't need balanced (big savings due to half the DAC modules) The Analog DAC will be better than the DACIV Platinum (without Galaxy). This was before the Plus was out, so I'm not exactly sure what that added sound wise.

Basically the Analog (which has the Femto clock or equivalent) made the legacy DAC IV line price incompetitive as it bested the more expensive old Platinum without clock upgrade. So MSB decided to make the Femto clock part of the standard DAC IV configuration. So now you can get an single ended Analog for $11k, a balance Platinum DAC IV for $13K, and a Signature for for $22K all with the femto clock, and the price/performance lineup make sense again.

 

[bplexico]

Thanks all - this information is helpful to me - given I only require single ended, USB input support and no requirement for a volume control - the Analog DAC may be the best choice for me - all else being equal - unless there is a SQ uplift with the Platinum DAC. I do realize that my upgrade path is constrained with the Analog DAC.

Anything beyond the Platinum range is outside my price point.

 

[edorr]

Thanks all - this information is helpful to me - given I only require single ended, USB input support and no requirement for a volume control - the Analog DAC may be the best choice for me - all else being equal - unless there is a SQ uplift with the Platinum DAC. I do realize that my upgrade path is constrained with the Analog DAC.

Anything beyond the Platinum range is outside my price point.

Sounds like the analog is your best bet. Should be sonically equivalent to platinum at lower cost.

 

[hvbias]

Basically the Analog (which has the Femto clock or equivalent) made the legacy DAC IV line price incompetitive as it bested the more expensive old Platinum without clock upgrade. So MSB decided to make the Femto clock part of the standard DAC IV configuration. So now you can get an single ended Analog for $11k, a balance Platinum DAC IV for $13K, and a Signature for for $22K all with the femto clock, and the price/performance lineup make sense again.

So the Analog DAC has gone from $7k to $11k? MSB's page still shows it as $7k

 

[edorr]

So the Analog DAC has gone from $7k to $11k? MSB's page still shows the old pricing.

No. 11k includes powerbase. USB also adds 1.4k. This stuff ain't cheap.