Symphonic Line

[marty]

sorry marty, nothing personal but that kind of comment is grounded in ignorance. rap is as much a musical artform as jazz, classical, rock, etc. when you listen to more rap, you'll understand why. and if that's not your jam then no problem at all but i'm just saying listen and learn before you judge.

3 Chords, AABA repetition motifs, more foul language than Lenny Bruce could have imagined, a plethora of MF and N words, the degradation of women, and the blatant cringe worthy disregard for human life may be music to you, but I'll pass, thank you very much. If you think the performance of what Cardi B and Megan Thee Stallion performed on the Grammy's show so that my 7 year old granddaughter could hear it uncensored was music, then we have very different ideas of what music is. Music is not notes that accompany lyrics written by these women that say men can -to paraphrase- "cum in my a**, in my pu**y or on my ti*s as long as I approve", all for the purpose of selling records to morons. Nor is it the notes that accompany lyrics that advocate gang bang shootings to make drug deals or kill cops who are considered murderers. I suffered through the recent documentary on Netflix Biggie Smalls just so I could see what I was missing and learned that my thoughts have not changed. You can call it music if you want to. I call it crap. This stuff is vile, disgusting, evil, and you can bet nobody will be playing it in 50 years no matter how many contrived awards it gets nominated for now. It's not that this so called music would ever be confused with Beethoven's 9th. But for god's sake, it doesn't even come close to "Chopsticks".

Since this is so far off topic that I can't remember the topic, I suggest we move on as further discussion is futile.

 

[Skanda]

3 Chords, AABA repetition motifs, more foul language than Lenny Bruce could have imagined, a plethora of MF and N words, the degradation of women, and the blatant cringe worthy disregard for human life may be music to you, but I'll pass, thank you very much. If you think the performance of what Cardi B and Megan Thee Stallion performed on the Grammy's show so that my 7 year old granddaughter could hear it uncensored was music, then we have very different ideas of what music is. Music is not notes that accompany lyrics written by these women that say men can -to paraphrase- "cum in my ass, in my pussy or on my tits as long as I approve", all for the purpose of selling records to morons. Nor is it the notes that accompany lyrics that advocate gang bang shootings to make drug deals or kill cops who are considered murderers. I suffered through the recent documentary on Netflix Biggie Smalls just so I could see what I was missing and learned that my thoughts have not changed. You can call it music if you want to. I call it crap. This stuff is vile, disgusting, evil, and you can bet nobody will be playing it in 50 years no matter how many contrived awards it gets nominated for now. It's not that this so called music would ever be confused with Beethoven's 9th. But for god's sake, it doesn't even come close to "Chopsticks".

Since this is so far off topic that I can't remember the topic, I suggest we move on as further discussion is futile.

yeah, i dont really care if you're so easily offended by lyrics. also nice of you to cherry pick examples that are hardly rap and more just pop. i don't get my music from award shows anyways. fairly cringey boomer behavior imo.

you can listen to whatever you feel like listening to and feel superior about it - i listen to a wide variety of stuff and don't really care to judge others' musical choices. it would be a lot more additive to the thread as a whole if you pearl clutched elsewhere.

 

[Gregm]

Since this is so far off topic that I can't remember the topic, I suggest we move on as further discussion is futile.

The topic is (was) Symphonic Line amplification, the Kraft series in particular>

 

[jonaiken]

The topic is (was) Symphonic Line amplification, the Kraft series in particular>

Amen Gregm

 

[thedudeabides]

3 Chords, AABA repetition motifs, more foul language than Lenny Bruce could have imagined, a plethora of MF and N words, the degradation of women, and the blatant cringe worthy disregard for human life may be music to you, but I'll pass, thank you very much.

Have to agree with Marty. Having said that, music is a very personal choice. If anyone knows, how does the Kraft Line sound on this type of music?

 

[Gregm]

Have to agree with Marty. Having said that, music is a very personal choice. If anyone knows, how does the Kraft Line sound on this type of music?

The bass line is strong and very clear, the voices are on the warm side of neutral, high frequencies are very extended -- which brings the rapper (narrator?) in the room.
The Krafts have very healthy, sturdy power reserves, they don't run out of steam playing prolonged, energy-guzzling, low frequencies.
That said, I'm no specialist in the genre; Eminem & Tupac are about it...

 

[Skanda]

The bass line is strong and very clear, the voices are on the warm side of neutral, high frequencies are very extended -- which brings the rapper (narrator?) in the room.
The Krafts have very healthy, sturdy power reserves, they don't run out of steam playing prolonged, energy-guzzling, low frequencies.
That said, I'm no specialist in the genre; Eminem & Tupac are about it...

despite saying you're not an expert in the genre, you nailed it. it sounds very alive and takes some of the edge and sizzle off the poorly recorded stuff. for the newer stuff with spacier beats it really gives you that massive soundstage without making the layers of samples congealed or too far apart. excellent layering. now this is with magico speakers so ymmv.

one note on chord progression...i don't think the musical aspect of hip hop is really in the chord progression and to look for it there is like claiming a leopard is a shitty tiger because it doesnt have stripes. different animal all together. i listen for lyrical interpolations and delivery. as well as the samples used (this is real big) to construct the beat. dr. dre, for example, has used psychadelic jazz beats from david macallum in some of his most famous tracks.

on the lyrics side, the kraft allows for that great vocal flow because of how liquid the midrange is. sorry for using cliche terms but when everything is warmed up and you're an hour or so into a session the glow from the vocals becomes hard to ignore. but its not mushy or syruppy and dynamics remain excellent. bars hit hard. going back to my earlier comment about lyrics and chord progression, there's a great channel on youtube called "spitted" which puts out excellent videos that show the lyrical weaving and rhyme schemese in color as portions of songs are played...here's an example. this is what i listen for in hip hop and sometimes you gotta say what you gotta say to make the bars epic, i don't take anything as an actual call for violence or to degrade women etc:

 

[Skanda]

oh btw, for anyone interested in learning more about hip hop as an art form or for those who already appreciate it and want to see a fresh media take on it (as opposed to the usual "this is ruining our society" take), these videos from vox are really cool and go into depth about hip hop history. the history, samples, vocal weavings all make lisenting to it on a very high end system extremely enjoyable as there is alot to deconstruct:

 

[thedudeabides]

there's a great channel on youtube called "spitted" which puts out excellent videos that show the lyrical weaving and rhyme schemese in color as portions of songs are played...here's an example. this is what i listen for in hip hop and sometimes you gotta say what you gotta say to make the bars epic, i don't take anything as an actual call for violence or to degrade women etc:

Maybe true for this example but when I select the XM hip hop station (use it to break in my gear for the bass energy), I hear, for the most part, the exact opposite. Very sad. With all due respect, way too much violence, anger and disrespect in the lyrics and in the world that I simply can't ignore.

 

[caesar]

I absolutely agree that a system should be able to play regular music to a pleasurable degree, but i don't agree that most audiophiles only play extremely well recorded boring shit. Most of us started as music lovers and still love the music we grew up with, additional development of taste for well recorded live instruments is maybe a byproduct of wanting to also hear what a high-end system is capable of. I doubt that many audiophiles only listen to the music you hear at audio shows, but i can't blame manufacturers for wanting to showcase their equipment with music that show the full capabilities of the gear.

Hi Lagonda,
You may be right that folks don't start out listening to audiophile music, but when you visit audiophiles and most dealers in the US, their playlists are all audiophile drek. To me that is the biggest problem in attracting new blood to the hobby... As Skanda mentioned above, he wants to play "modern music", but unfortunately non-audiophile music just sounds overly precise, sterile, clinical, unimaginative, and completely unengaging on these "modern systems. (But as John Atkinson measures it, it's damn near perfect.)

 

[AudioLibertarian]

Hi Lagonda,
You may be right that folks don't start out listening to audiophile music, but when you visit audiophiles and most dealers in the US, their playlists are all audiophile drek. To me that is the biggest problem in attracting new blood to the hobby... As Skanda mentioned above, he wants to play "modern music", but unfortunately non-audiophile music just sounds overly precise, sterile, clinical, unimaginative, and completely unengaging on these "modern systems. (But as John Atkinson measures it, it's damn near perfect.)

Out of 40 000 albums (in various formats) in my collection there about only 5 verified "audiophile drek", yet my entire collection is immensely enjoyable on my system, plus countless internet radio streams at 96-320 kbps, that often sound greatly enjoyable music&sound wise as well. This asks for a conclusion that:

1. If one's system sounds less than enjoyable on non-audiophile recordings than it must suck ( the most egregious example I ve ever heard were those highly touted British made horns at half a million that completely fall apart at most "dynamic", somewhat compressed, elementary non audiophile cuts, but I guess we all listen for different things, as most audiophile press has climaxed over their sound)

2: Most audiophiles are gear heads who could not care less about the music, and are infatuated with the sound reproduction ONLY, and the perceived quality of their audio toys among their peers...

3. Combination of the above! (Judging by the amount of used gear that is available on numerous audio sites all over the world and how LITTLE there is discussion of music on most audiophile forums, I think this could be the one.....)

Naturally the above is mine a very NON humble opinion

 

[caesar]

Out of 40 000 albums (in various formats) in my collection there about only 5 verified "audiophile drek", yet my entire collection is immensely enjoyable on my system, plus countless internet radio streams at 96-320 kbps, that often sound greatly enjoyable music&sound wise as well. This asks for a conclusion that:

1. If one's system sounds less than enjoyable on non-audiophile recordings than it must suck ( the most egregious example I ve ever heard were those highly touted British made horns at half a million that completely fall apart at most "dynamic", somewhat compressed, elementary non audiophile cuts, but I guess we all listen for different things, as most audiophile press has climaxed over their sound)

2: Most audiophiles are gear heads who could not care less about the music, and are infatuated with the sound reproduction ONLY, and the perceived quality of their audio toys among their peers...

3. Combination of the above! (Judging by the amount of used gear that is available on numerous audio sites all over the world and how LITTLE there is discussion of music on most audiophile forums, I think this could be the one.....)

Naturally the above is mine a very NON humble opinion

Yes, symphonic line is designed for guys like you - guys who LOVE MUSIC and with SL, whose systems won't suck playing all kinds of music

 

[Skanda]

Yes, symphonic line is designed for guys like you - guys who LOVE MUSIC and with SL, whose systems won't suck playing all kinds of music

SL can honestly bring musicality to any speaker. I didn't really understand "liquid" till I heard the SL fully warmed up and singing.

 

[bonzo75]

I do have a Kraft 300 dual mono i was using on a pair of Viking Acoustics Berlin speakers. Total over kill but it sounded really good . I've changed to Allnic 300B amps. A much better match.

Add elrog or KR 300b on them over the stock it will be much better. A friend in London owns that amp

 

[theaudiogeek]

Skanda, reflecting on your option 1 - As an owner of both the Kraft 300 Stereo (40th Anniversary version) and Kraft 300 Monoblocks there are sonic similarities and some differences between the amps. The mono-blocks are more precise with imaging and a tad bit more liquid sounding while the Stereo (dual mono) is more dynamic and detailed probably contributed to the new Audyn caps and other tweeks in 40th Anniversary version that are not in my Monoblocks. Otherwise they are similar in sound. If I were in your shoes I would not mono-fi the Stereo amp........which is already dual mono. I will say cables make a big difference on the Kraft 300’s. Recently went from Nordost Odin to Transparent Audio and was amazed on how much more dynamic and detailed my system sounded without losing any transparency. There are So many variables into getting the optimum from your system. Hopefully the new loom of cables will bring out the best of the Kraft 300. Just wanted to share my experience with the Kraft 300 Stereo vs Monoblocks.

Hi... Just curious as to which version of Transparent Audio cable did you end up getting? LowZ or HiZ version configured for Kraft?

 

[jonaiken]

Hi... Just curious as to which version of Transparent Audio cable did you end up getting? LowZ or HiZ version configured for Kraft?

I am using the Ultra’s which don’t have those options. The Reference line has those options which I will be upgrading to in the future.

 

[theaudiogeek]

I am using the Ultra’s which don’t have those options. The Reference line has those options which I will be upgrading to in the future.

Thank you for the quick response!

 

[AudioLibertarian]

SL can honestly bring musicality to any speaker. I didn't really understand "liquid" till I heard the SL fully warmed up and singing.

Hey Skanda, Congrats on your new M2s! I wonder if Bob demoed those M2s with his Pilium amps for you at his showroom and if so what were your impressions of those PIlium amp(s) vs your Kraft Mk3 at your own place? Thanks!

 

[Skanda]

Hey Skanda, Congrats on your new M2s! I wonder if Bob demoed those M2s with his Pilium amps for you at his showroom and if so what were your impressions of those PIlium amp(s) vs your Kraft Mk3 at your own place? Thanks!

I made the deal without demoing. I had briefly heard the m2’s at Bob’s place in 2019 but I don’t remember if it was on pilium or not. I was pretty comfortable buying it without demoing since I already had the s5. The kraft+the m2 is a great combo. It needs the power and the midrange tone from the kraft through the extremely high res and transparent canvas that the m2 offers is nothing short of euphoric. There is so much speed, dynamics, and texture I find myself shaking my head as I relisten to tracks I know well. I feel like my whole system has unlocked a new level of performance.

 

[caesar]

Skanda, congrats on the M2s! may your system bring you many hours of Bliss and put you in the state of flow every time you listen to it.