Stereo Field Processing

[dainapoo]

Good to know this Bruce. I'd been looking into this for awhile. Since you have access to the Rupert Neve, let me ask you, would YOU use it in your system? In other words do you feel that what it adds is sonically worthwhile; closer to the truth etc.? Or, when you are listening just for listening's sake do you leave it out of your system? Thanks,

Daina Wilburn
Everett, WA

 

[russtafarian]

This thread inspired me to use a mid-side plugin in Jriver to play around with the "QOL" effect. It works and it sounds pretty cool if not overdone. And it's FREE to do it this way. I use Voxengo MSED ( http://www.voxengo.com/product/msed/ ). Increasing side level between 0.8 and 1.2 is all it takes to give the soundstage a nice touch of bloom without overdoing it.

FWIW, John Atkinson at Stereophile came up with similar results:

http://www.stereophile.com/content/bsg-q248l-signal-completion-stage

A few select quotes:

Ah-ha! This looks like a variation on something with which I am familiar: the Blumlein Shuffler, which allows adjustment of a stereo soundstage's width and dates back to the 1930s. By converting a conventional stereo signal into Sum and Difference signals and amplifying or attenuating the Difference signal before rematrixing these signals to produce left and right outputs, the stage width can be reduced or expanded. And if you change the spectral balance of the Difference signal, you can selectively alter the stage width at some frequencies but not others.

At the end of my formal auditioning, I created a Sum-Difference processor with the same Golden Ratio coefficient as the BSG qøl process, using the high-precision DSP engine in Metric Halo's MIO2882+2D FireWire audio interface, and sending the dithered 24-bit output via AES/EBU to the CP-800. Comparing the result of this processing to the Signal Completion Stage's, operating on decoded versions of the same files, was fascinating: My preference was for the BSG, even though the effect on the soundstage was virtually identical.

 

[Bruce B]

This thread inspired me to use a mid-side plugin in Jriver to play around with the "QOL" effect. It works and it sounds pretty cool if not overdone. And it's FREE to do it this way. I use Voxengo MSED ( http://www.voxengo.com/product/msed/ ). Increasing side level between 0.8 and 1.2 is all it takes to give the soundstage a nice touch of bloom without overdoing it.

FWIW, John Atkinson at Stereophile came up with similar results:

http://www.stereophile.com/content/bsg-q248l-signal-completion-stage

A few select quotes:

This is what I'm telling people. Tools like this will allow you to use as much or as little as you want. The $4k BSG box is either on or off. Plus you're getting a gain change.

 

[prerich]

This is what I'm telling people. Tools like this will allow you to use as much or as little as you want. The $4k BSG box is either on or off. Plus you're getting a gain change.

I recently added the Voxengo MSED plugin to my PC running JRiver - and the q0l effect is very present. Best of all, I didn't pay $4k large for the BSG unit, the plugin was free! Was my music more plesant...yes. Did I hear more insturments than before...yes. Did it increase ambience and detail....another yes (I could tell that a standup bass was being played on Allen & Allens What the World Needs now ft. Take 6, and on live gospel music - oh you hear what the audiance is talking about during the music)! I may not be considered an audio purist, but I love what the MSED does! Now, I can keep that $4K in my pocket!

 

[Bruce B]

I recently added the Voxengo MSED plugin to my PC running JRiver - and the q0l effect is very present. Best of all, I didn't pay $4k large for the BSG unit, the plugin was free! Was my music more plesant...yes. Did I hear more insturments than before...yes. Did it increase ambience and detail....another yes (I could tell that a standup bass was being played on Allen & Allens What the World Needs now ft. Take 6, and on live gospel music - oh you hear what the audiance is talking about during the music)! I may not be considered an audio purist, but I love what the MSED does! Now, I can keep that $4K in my pocket!

There you go.... that's what I'm talking about!!

You're much better off using something else where you can dial in as much or as little effect as needed instead of buying some $4k box that someone arbitrarily sets a parameter for everything. Good job!

 

[Soundproof]

I have a particular fascination for the Beolab 5000 amplifier from B&O, made from 1968-1972. It is solid state and had L/C/R output (The center channel not being a true source-input center).
You've seen it in Kubrick's Clockwork Orange. I have two of those, completely refurbished to factory new standard inside and out.

It came with an optional "Stereo Spread Unit." This unit was effective because the L/R channels are in antiphase on this amplifier. Audiophiles would buy two, and use them as separate mono amplifiers, they would then deliver 2x120W, which was a miracle back in 1968. (B&O contracted with Thorens for a bespoke TD124/IIs to be used with the amplifier.)

From BeoCentral: The two channels operated in phase opposition. This was done by including a unity-gain phase inverter in one of the power amplifiers. Correct phasing was then restored by simply reversing the wiring to the loudspeaker sockets of that channel. Not only did this allow the Beolab 5000 to be easily used as a really powerful mono amplifier, it also improved the quality of stereo reproduction by evening out the loading on the power supply. The only downside to this arrangement was that a headphone socket could not be easily included, though the accessory “stereo spread unit” included one by the use of a transformer. The power supply section of the Beolab 5000 was also unusual because it provided a number of fully stabilised voltages for the various sections of the amplifier, including the power output stages. Such was the requirement for power for this latter function that two large transistors had to be used in parallel.

The stereo spread unit allowed users to dial in their preferred soundstage width and perceived depth.
Back then, it sold for £7 in the UK.

It is a phenomenal amp, made when B&O was putting a lot of effort into R&D. The dedicated loudspeakers also had specially developed high frequency range separates. Coupled with the large main speakers, two of these assist the soundstage depiction considerably.

The stereo spread unit:



The high-frequency speakers, with six tweeters.



Would be connected to these main speakers. When connected, the high-frequency information would go to the cubes.



The amp and tuner.

 

[Bruce B]

For ultimate flexibility you need to be able to adjust the Mid and Side independently.

 

[Soundproof]

For ultimate flexibility you need to be able to adjust the Mid and Side independently.

Yes, just added that post to show that the thinking isn't new.

 

[Whatmore]

This thread inspired me to use a mid-side plugin in Jriver to play around with the "QOL" effect. It works and it sounds pretty cool if not overdone. And it's FREE to do it this way. I use Voxengo MSED ( http://www.voxengo.com/product/msed/ ). Increasing side level between 0.8 and 1.2 is all it takes to give the soundstage a nice touch of bloom without overdoing it.

FWIW, John Atkinson at Stereophile came up with similar results:

http://www.stereophile.com/content/bsg-q248l-signal-completion-stage

A few select quotes:

Can anyone give me an idiots guide as to how to use Voxengo MSED with iTunes (if that's possible)?

 

[russtafarian]

Can anyone give me an idiots guide as to how to use Voxengo MSED with iTunes (if that's possible)?

I don't think VST plugins (like Voxengo MSED) can be used in Itunes. Sorry.

PC music programs like Jriver or Foobar can use plugins. I'm not a Mac user so I don't know about Mac music programs.

Russ

 

[prerich]

Can anyone give me an idiots guide as to how to use Voxengo MSED with iTunes (if that's possible)?

This is a very easy answer but a sad one....iTunes does not support VST.

 

[prerich]

For ultimate flexibility you need to be able to adjust the Mid and Side independently.

Yes indeed. I found that's the best way to "dial" in the MSED.

 

[tiff_needle]

I don't think VST plugins (like Voxengo MSED) can be used in Itunes. Sorry.

PC music programs like Jriver or Foobar can use plugins. I'm not a Mac user so I don't know about Mac music programs.

Russ

The new Audionirvana iteration no support audio units so you could use it with iTunes if you have A+ installed.

 

[russtafarian]

The new Audionirvana iteration no support audio units so you could use it with iTunes if you have A+ installed.

Do you mean to say "no", "now" or "not"? Does "audio units" refer to audio plug-ins or something else? Let us know please. Thanks.

Russ

 

[tiff_needle]

Do you mean to say "no", "now" or "not"? Does "audio units" refer to audio plug-ins or something else? Let us know please. Thanks.

Russ

Sorry... Bloody autocorrect from the iPad... I meant now!

 

[untangle]

Yes, AUs are Apple's version of VSTs - both are plugins.

Several Mac players support AU plugins, including A+, PM, and Fidelia. Pro software on the Mac (e.g., Plogue Bidule) typically supports both AUs and VSTs.

Note that the plugins vary in sound quality in a manner similar to the player software itself. No free ride - implementation matters.

Bob

 

[audioguy]

As noted previously, my experience with the QOL was quite different than Bruce's. I loved it. It makes going back to "regular" 2 channel difficult.

That said, my unit is for sale. Not because I don't love it but rather, I will be building a new theater/listening room in our new home and need to raise capital to help pay for what we will be doing.

If interested, PM me.

 

[Bruce B]

Looks like this QOL thing has come down in price..... Wonder if anyone that paid the original price will get a refund??

 

[untangle]

umm, let me think...

Looks like this QOL thing has come down in price..... Wonder if anyone that paid the original price will get a refund??

I wouldn't count on it.

Bob

 

[Bruce B]

I wouldn't count on it.

Bob

Looks like there will be some pissed off folks!