Speaker placement and other factors......

[Gregadd]

The first step is to abandon our natural tendency toward symmetry.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

in each person's walk down the high end audio road there are moments where one hears something that they want for themselves. but to be in that mind set they have to be open to really listening. when we get a reference in our minds that we don't hear in our own set-up all of a sudden we get open minded and then our visual priorities take a back seat to what we want to hear.

sometimes there is a learning curve before the clouds part and one 'gets' what good sound can actually sound like.

if a person is not at that point then you just have to celebrate the good things about the music that they do hear.....and be happy for them for what they enjoy.

you can have 'music friends' that don't have audiophile sensibilities....and may never have them. they like shiny pretty stuff.

 

[thedudeabides]

Also depends on how knowledgeable the sales guy was. Doesn't have anything to do with integrity if he flat out doesn't know. Rob

Rob,

Pretty simple in my mind. If you are selling something, you should know about the products that you are selling. It's one very important component of "customer service".

 

[asiufy]

Well, we make sure to mention to potential customers the characteristics of each speaker, and any particular positioning they'd require. For instance, YGs are generally easier to place, and will sound peachy up against the wall. Other brands, particularly with ports in the back, won't be as easy/simple...

From what DaveyF describes, this guy needs a Linn system, with the DSP/room correction mechanism. If only he'd visited us before buying all that stuff...


cheers,
alex

 

[Robh3606]

Rob,

Pretty simple in my mind. If you are selling something, you should know about the products that you are selling. It's one very important component of "customer service".

I agree with you just have had several experiences where that was not the case.

Rob

Rob

 

[Ron Resnick]

Ron.. a 25' x 20' room and you have to seat back at the wall? I am missing something here ...

The panels of the Prodigys are about 8' from the front wall. I sit about 12' away from the speakers. The back of my couch is about 2' from the back wall.

I have two 4' X 8' ASC absorption panels covering the entire back wall behind the couch.

 

[DaveyF]

From what DaveyF describes, this guy needs a Linn system, with the DSP/room correction mechanism. If only he'd visited us before buying all that stuff...


cheers,
alex

Indeed, I wish that I had known the guy before he bought all of the gear...would certainly have recommended you guys.

 

[c1ferrari]

Yeah -- it's important, Davey, but you work with whatever physical realities are extant.

 

[c1ferrari]

...most of them (perhaps not so much here) are terrible setups and indicate either ignorance or the influence of excessive external constraints. Obvious examples include asymmetries like having one speaker in a corner and the other adjacent to an open door way...

Haha...your describing our listening environment.
We're of the "excessive external constraints" cohort.

 

[bonzo75]

The panels of the Prodigys are about 8' from the front wall. I sit about 12' away from the speakers. The back of my couch is about 2' from the back wall.

I have two 4' X 8' ASC absorption panels covering the entire back wall behind the couch.

I assume you would have moved your chair between 8' to 12' before deciding 12 is best?

 

[FrantzM]

I assume you would have moved your chair between 8' to 12' before deciding 12 is best?

Was about to ask a similar question.

 

[Ron Resnick]

I assume you would have moved your chair between 8' to 12' before deciding 12 is best?

Yes, I did. I never found that an equilateral triangle configuration worked for me with MLs.

Interestingly an equilateral triangle and Rule of Thirds configuration is good for the Pendragons.

 

[jn229]

A few years back I was at a local dealer's 'Meet the Manufacturer night'. While there a customer asked the factory representative of Sonus Faber if he could hear the stand mounted Guarneri speakers. I was invited to tag along to another sound room where the rep proceeded to set up the Guarneri's. The rep started by adjusting the balance control to the left channel only (all McIntosh electronics). Listening to a female vocal he moved the left speaker till he was satisfied with the sound. He then moved the right speaker out into the room while playing the same vocal with the balance control centred. When he was finished the left speaker was six to eight inches forward compared to the right. (he claimed the equipment rack down the left wall and in front of the left speaker was the reason for the unequal spacing)

Not having the speakers an equal distance into the room seems foreign to me and I remember sitting in the listening chair that night expecting, maybe a little determine, to hear an anonymity. I have to say the speakers disappeared, the sound stage was excellent and the overall tonal structure was fine.

In my room, my kit is almost as Jim Smith's book recommends, but after that Sonus Faber demonstration I have an open mind when I see a setup that is not symmetrical or following the 'Perfect ratio'.

 

[DaveyF]

Not having the speakers an equal distance into the room seems foreign to me and I remember sitting in the listening chair that night expecting, maybe a little determine, to hear an anonymity. I have to say the speakers disappeared, the sound stage was excellent and the overall tonal structure was fine.

In my room, my kit is almost as Jim Smith's book recommends, but after that Sonus Faber demonstration I have an open mind when I see a setup that is not symmetrical or following the 'Perfect ratio'.

jn229, I know a little about Guarneri's. I can tell you that IME they need to be set up with precision. The G's benefit greatly from laser alignment. I suppose that in the demo that you heard, they were set up as well as could be expected ( given the supposed constraints) but like many speakers, a basic set up is ok, however, IF one wants to truly hear what the speaker can do...then correct alignment and care in placement will yield dividends. Somehow I strongly suspect you did not hear anything like what the Guarneri's are able to bring in that demo.

 

[c1ferrari]

A few years back I was at a local dealer's 'Meet the Manufacturer night'. While there a customer asked the factory representative of Sonus Faber if he could hear the stand mounted Guarneri speakers. I was invited to tag along to another sound room where the rep proceeded to set up the Guarneri's. The rep started by adjusting the balance control to the left channel only (all McIntosh electronics). Listening to a female vocal he moved the left speaker till he was satisfied with the sound. He then moved the right speaker out into the room while playing the same vocal with the balance control centred. When he was finished the left speaker was six to eight inches forward compared to the right. (he claimed the equipment rack down the left wall and in front of the left speaker was the reason for the unequal spacing)

Not having the speakers an equal distance into the room seems foreign to me and I remember sitting in the listening chair that night expecting, maybe a little determine, to hear an anonymity. I have to say the speakers disappeared, the sound stage was excellent and the overall tonal structure was fine.

In my room, my kit is almost as Jim Smith's book recommends, but after that Sonus Faber demonstration I have an open mind when I see a setup that is not symmetrical or following the 'Perfect ratio'.

Hmm...interesting. How about toe-in? So, the listening position was not equidistant to either loudspeaker

 

[Bruce B]

At one time, the placement of this system used to be much worse. When she had WatchDogs, everything was bunched up in the middle in a perfect line.

 

[DaveyF]

At one time, the placement of this system used to be much worse. When she had WatchDogs, everything was bunched up in the middle in a perfect line.


View attachment 26298

WOW, That is really an awesome picture, Bruce! You say she....is that a typo??? If not, at least 'she' has some great gear,LOL. Hate to think what it must have sounded like in that set-up and room. OTOH, probably better than the Bose systems that most all ladies are enjoying.

 

[spazmatron]

A few years back I was at a local dealer's 'Meet the Manufacturer night'. While there a customer asked the factory representative of Sonus Faber if he could hear the stand mounted Guarneri speakers. I was invited to tag along to another sound room where the rep proceeded to set up the Guarneri's. The rep started by adjusting the balance control to the left channel only (all McIntosh electronics). Listening to a female vocal he moved the left speaker till he was satisfied with the sound. He then moved the right speaker out into the room while playing the same vocal with the balance control centred. When he was finished the left speaker was six to eight inches forward compared to the right. (he claimed the equipment rack down the left wall and in front of the left speaker was the reason for the unequal spacing)

Not having the speakers an equal distance into the room seems foreign to me and I remember sitting in the listening chair that night expecting, maybe a little determine, to hear an anonymity. I have to say the speakers disappeared, the sound stage was excellent and the overall tonal structure was fine.

In my room, my kit is almost as Jim Smith's book recommends, but after that Sonus Faber demonstration I have an open mind when I see a setup that is not symmetrical or following the 'Perfect ratio'.

anyone who sets up their speakers with just a tape measure is a moron imo. the guy you're talking about seems to really know his stuff. if you're a OCD audiophile you might not be able to handle the sight of your speakers not being exactly the same in a perfect triangle of some kind.. i would say try not to restrict yourselves in this way as you will also be restricting your hi fi.

 

[Ron Resnick]

At one time, the placement of this system used to be much worse. When she had WatchDogs, everything was bunched up in the middle in a perfect line.


View attachment 26298

Do reflections from the uncovered windows cause any problem?

 

[FrantzM]

Do reflections from the uncovered windows cause any problem?

They have to ... but ...

Somewhere, somehow we must raise the notion of measurements ... as in measuring where the FR is the smoother. That is not an easy (but eminently doable) task and in the anti-science current mood that permeates the hobby, it is almost not desired at the least unilkely to be contemplated. But that is what the listening position is about .. A position where the drivers coalesce, the FR is the least bumpy and the presentation (soundstage, imaging, etc) the more favorable...