Should i surrender? Perlisten sub
- Thread starter Stereophonic
- Start date
My two sub's combined frequency response was quite poor to start with. Fiddling with my sub's delays got rid of a big peak & a big dropout below 80 Hz. I wouldn't have known about those problems or been able to correct them without taking measurements. Measurements were also needed to guide me on optimizing the low end with the LS filters. My system sounds much better than it did prior to making those tweaks.
The rolloff below 50 Hz is what one would measure outside. My measurements were made at my main listening position (MLP), so they benefit from room gain.
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Sweet!
That might be the best in room sweep below 100hz I have ever seen. Nice work
That might be the best in room sweep below 100hz I have ever seen. Nice work
Thank you. I have seen charts from several folks that better mine - basically ruler flat down to ~ 3 Hz. Each of those bass heads have quite a few more 18" drivers in their home theaters than I do however.Sweet!
That might be the best in room sweep below 100hz I have ever seen. Nice work
A lot of movie soundtracks have neutered low ends, so my system's low end response isn't fully utilized most of the time. When I do queue up a well-mastered soundtrack or music (eg. Dark Side of the Moon SACD, Yello Point - Atmos), the low end does rock the house.
Very tasty looking Subs thereFunk Audio subs can't be beat IMO. Here are mine -
Dual 18" in brindle bamboo veneer -
Quad 18" in a quilted bubinga veneer -
Great to know and particularly great to see your experience with Nathan Funk! I see you have effectively 6 x 18" cones. The dual-opposing 24" cones I am contemplating with Nathan would apparently be the equivalent of approximately 3 of his dual-opposing 18" 18.2 reference subs...he stated that its performance at or below 40hz would be superior as well...but that above 40hz, the dual-opposing 18.2 would be superior.Thank you. I have seen charts from several folks that better mine - basically ruler flat down to ~ 3 Hz. Each of those bass heads have quite a few more 18" drivers in their home theaters than I do however.
A lot of movie soundtracks have neutered low ends, so my system's low end response isn't fully utilized most of the time. When I do queue up a well-mastered soundtrack or music (eg. Dark Side of the Moon SACD, Yello Point - Atmos), the low end does rock the house.
So the dual 24" is a specific design choice to optimize performance below 40hz which is where I am focusing.
That said, a question for you:
I am really trying to figure out what exactly happens when I go from a single 18" sub (Velodyne DD18+ right now) to effectively 6 or more of these in-room. You have done that. So...what has happened to the sound in going to this level of extreme? Thank you for any guidance and specific observations!!!
Headroom & room smoothing. A single Funk Audio 18.0 sub can be tuned to deliver the same frequency response as my two subs. It wouldn't be able to tame room modes as well as multi-subs however, and the max SPL would be significantly lower. As to the sound quality with my setup, the low end is truly impressive if you play something that has a strong low end (eg. The War of the Worlds Blu-ray (not UHD). The low end response on the UHD disc for this movie has been horribly neutered, unfortunately).
A dual-opposed config is efficient but I like to see the drivers, so that's why I had my dual 18" configured with both drivers facing forward. Personal preference.
I disabled the factory high pass filters as well as adding the LS filters to lift the low end response. I also run my subs hot. This could cause problems and possibly lead to equipment damage if the same thing was done on a ported sub or for different drivers that aren't as robust as Funk's 18" TSAD drivers. I'm guessing that Nathan's 24" drivers would be fine doing this in a sealed enclosure, but you should definitely check with him before doing it.
If you decide to go with a dual 24", I'd definitely recommend using dual 2400 W amps. A single 2400 W amp would run out of juice long before those drivers reached their limits. My dual 18" has two amps.
Let us know how it goes with your sub! Probably best to start a new thread for that however, since this conversation is OT for this Perlisten thread.
Cheers.
Thank you! When you play large-scale orchestral or very well recorded jazz in a club...do you find that having large air displacement in the bass increases the sense of venue/space of the club, or the orchestra ability to 'breathe' and really create that powerful crescendo at scale?
That is what 1 big sub has done for the system...and I know that there is more that could be done. Just curious as to whether more is 2 cones...or whether 6 has passed diminishing returns.
Nathan was kind enough to say dual 18.2 (4 x 18") would be amazing and probably more than I am even looking for...and dual 24" would just surpass 3 x 18.2 and be just at that point of 'diminishing returns' and entirely SOTA.
I'm more into rock than jazz or classical. The only orchestral pieces that I've played anytime in the recent past were these Chopin Blu-rays -
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004DIPLQS?psc=1
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005FAH17A?psc=1
I'd have to A/B test to know for sure, but my impression is that my subs are overkill for music like this. I credit my acoustic panels and Trinnov Altitude audio processor for improving the sense of being in whatever space the recording took place. I've configured my Altitude to upmix stereo and 5.1 content to utilize my overhead speakers (6.2.6 config). For stereo music I like the Auromatic upmixer. For 5.1 material I use the Dolby Surround Upmixer (DSU). Upmixing really does expand the spaciousness of music. I was never a big fan of Pink Floyd, but listening to the Dark Side of the Moon SACD (5.1) upmixed with DSU is a very impressive listening experience, especially with the Funk subs.
Although one of my subs is a quad 18", I think that if I had it to do over again I'd skip the quad & just order two of the dual 18's with dual amps in each. While those 24" drivers would certainly be a sight to behold, I expect that they'd just be overkill. Two dual 18's should rock the house unless you like to crank the volume up significantly louder than I do.
Thank you! We do listen to a lot of orchestral, deep house electronic and also soundtracks of movies (ie, on CD but the movie soundtrack) which tends to use deep bass synthesizers often (Hans Zimmer particularly). We do listen to Pink Floyd...and sometimes live concerts. So deep bass for the sense of the venue, the deep synthesizers and the effortlessness of it all benefits from the single 18s servo sub.
And it seems that on some of your own music, the massive air movement you can achieve does that and a whole lot more...cool.
As for the dual 24", interestingly, while the 2 x dual 18s provide flexibility of placement (which we cannot use right now)...and also provide better performance above 40hz (again, in this setup sub-40hz is our target)...the single sub of dual 24" would provide the power of 3 dual 18s...but in a box SMALLER than 2 dual 18s...so the smallest solution is actually the single 'overkill' dual 24.
...more to come!
Would it be much more challenging to intergrate a 12" sub with the 8" TAD's bass as i can imagine a 8" driver to be very much lighter and faster given the mass for a 12" subs driver, even the very fastest of larger subs i imagine will struggle to to keep up.
The speed of a driver is related to the frequency it's reproducing and the volume / SPL that it puts out. It's more difficult for a small driver to reproduce sound at a given SPL than a larger driver since its excursion must be greater to move the same amount of air. All else being equal, a sub with a large driver can reach higher SPLs with less distortion than a sub with a small driver.
Integrating a sub with your mains involves ensuring that they're both in phase at the crossover frequency and adjusting the sub's gain as appropriate.
https://web.archive.org/web/20161230035333/http://www.data-bass.com/data?page=knowhow&type=1
Hi everybody.
No time to write extended explanation.
News are i’ve bought Perlisten D12S sub and Esprit cables to do justice with such stunning sub.
No need to do measurements. iOS app is amazing to search right setup and change it when poor recordings or over produced ones makes bass thin or big.
Sub alignment with Tad bass driver makes a big difference in timing.
With basic Audioquest interconnects and default Perlisten power cord sound is tunefull, quick and deep.
I was afraid about sub energy but sub disappears letting Tad bass sound really better than before. It shows how good are these speakers and with low bass addition there isn’t way back.
Today i’ve connected new Esprit cables to get higher level.
They aren’t at the same level of rest of Esprit cables in my system, but i fell sub needs lighter quality cables to work only below 80/70Hz.
Cheers !!!!
No time to write extended explanation.
News are i’ve bought Perlisten D12S sub and Esprit cables to do justice with such stunning sub.
No need to do measurements. iOS app is amazing to search right setup and change it when poor recordings or over produced ones makes bass thin or big.
Sub alignment with Tad bass driver makes a big difference in timing.
With basic Audioquest interconnects and default Perlisten power cord sound is tunefull, quick and deep.
I was afraid about sub energy but sub disappears letting Tad bass sound really better than before. It shows how good are these speakers and with low bass addition there isn’t way back.
Today i’ve connected new Esprit cables to get higher level.
They aren’t at the same level of rest of Esprit cables in my system, but i fell sub needs lighter quality cables to work only below 80/70Hz.
Cheers !!!!
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