Rick Rubin

MylesBAstor

Well-Known Member
Apr 20, 2010
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Don't know people watched SNL tonight and caught Rick Rubin DJing for Eminem tonight on SNL. While Rubin is widely considered one of the best producers of the last 20 years, he was also responsible for one of the recording trends that audiophiles rail against to this day. Unlike Rand Paul, I will give credit to Wikipedia:

"Rubin has also often been criticized by listeners in recent years for contributing largely to a phenomenon in music known as the loudness wars. The loudness war is commonly described as a piece of music that has a lack of dynamic range, brickwalling, clipping issues and general over-loudness. Listeners have specifically found the loudness war being clearly present on several albums produced by Rubin, including the newest Black Sabbath release, 13. Ben Ratliff of The New York Times said "The new Black Sabbath album was produced by Rick Rubin, who some believe to be a prime offender in the recent history of highly compressed and loudly mastered music — a major cause of ear fatigue...13 is mastered loudly, too" Your ears aren't given room to breathe".[23] Jon Hadusek of Consequence of Sound also blamed Rubin for the production, "Rubin...deserves disparagement for the way he mixed the audio levels, which are crushed by distortion and compression. Otherwise well-recorded songs are blemished, an affliction all too pervasive in the modern music industry".[24]

Another album produced by Rubin, Californication by Red Hot Chili Peppers, also received criticism for what Tim Anderson of The Guardian called "excessive compression and distortion" in the process of digital mastering.[25] Stylus Magazine labeled it as one of the victims of the loudness war and commented that it suffered from digital clipping so much that "even non-audiophile consumers complained about it".[26]

The most well known example of the loudness war prior to 13 was the 2008 Metallica album, Death Magnetic. Since release, the Guitar Hero version of Death Magnetic has been often turned to for optimal listening because it doesn't have the sonic problems heard on the official CD release. It's widely thought that these issues are not present in the Guitar Hero version of the album because of the fact that each of the four members instrument/vocal tracks are present in separate form because of how the game functions (in that each track will be muted if notes are missed/not played in game). These master tracks were sent to the game publishers before a process called peak limiting could occur in the mastering process, which explains why we don't hear the clearly audible distortion found on the CD.[27][28] Sean Michaels of The Guardian explains that "the sound issues are a result of the 'loudness war' – an ongoing industry effort to make recordings as loud as possible".[29]ht on SNL. Although Rubin is regarded as one of best producers of the last 20 year, I thought it was interesting that he is also credited with creating the loudness wars."
 
Is Rick Rubin the producer responsible for the compression and loudness on some of his recordings?

Or is it more the responsibility of the guy who mastered the albums?

I have quite a few Rick Rubin produced LP's and none of them sound particulary loud or compressed - Johnny Cash, Chili Pepper Blood, Sugar Sex Magic , Audioslave, Rage Against the Machine -Renegades , Tom Petty - Wildflowers, Mick Jagger Wandering Spirits.
I even have the dreaded Death Magnetic and it is not as bad ( it is not great) on vinyl as everyone goes on about - it is heavy metal.
 
I saw the program, the performers were positively lousy.

If they had good audio engineering, they would still be lousy.

I typically change the channel when the musical guest comes on SNL.

Quite simply, none of them have any redeeming value.
 
I saw the program, the performers were positively lousy.

If they had good audio engineering, they would still be lousy.

I typically change the channel when the musical guest comes on SNL.

Quite simply, none of them have any redeeming value.

But tell us how you really liked the show Gary;)
 
I would, but the post would probably get deleted! :D
 
I didn't see the program, but you gotta give RR credit- he started, as I recall, producing rap when he was still living in a dorm at NYU and has matured musically- I have an EU (I think German) pressing of that Red Hot Chili Peppers record (Sex, Magik whatever) and it sounds pretty good. I also give him props for working with Johnny Cash at the end of the guy's life.
 
I didn't see the program, but you gotta give RR credit- he started, as I recall, producing rap when he was still living in a dorm at NYU and has matured musically- I have an EU (I think German) pressing of that Red Hot Chili Peppers record (Sex, Magik whatever) and it sounds pretty good. I also give him props for working with Johnny Cash at the end of the guy's life.

Don't disagree as he started Def Jam records while at Long Beach HS, NY. But he took a wrong turn somewhere.
 
Is Rick Rubin the producer responsible for the compression and loudness on some of his recordings?

Or is it more the responsibility of the guy who mastered the albums?

I have quite a few Rick Rubin produced LP's and none of them sound particulary loud or compressed - Johnny Cash, Chili Pepper Blood, Sugar Sex Magic , Audioslave, Rage Against the Machine -Renegades , Tom Petty - Wildflowers, Mick Jagger Wandering Spirits.
I even have the dreaded Death Magnetic and it is not as bad ( it is not great) on vinyl as everyone goes on about - it is heavy metal.

No it was Rick Rubin who said compression would become known as the sound of R&R.
 
Don't know people watched SNL tonight and caught Rick Rubin DJing for Eminem tonight on SNL. While Rubin is widely considered one of the best producers of the last 20 years, he was also responsible for one of the recording trends that audiophiles rail against to this day. Unlike Rand Paul, I will give credit to Wikipedia:

"Rubin has also often been criticized by listeners in recent years for contributing largely to a phenomenon in music known as the loudness wars. The loudness war is commonly described as a piece of music that has a lack of dynamic range, brickwalling, clipping issues and general over-loudness. Listeners have specifically found the loudness war being clearly present on several albums produced by Rubin, including the newest Black Sabbath release, 13. Ben Ratliff of The New York Times said "The new Black Sabbath album was produced by Rick Rubin, who some believe to be a prime offender in the recent history of highly compressed and loudly mastered music — a major cause of ear fatigue...13 is mastered loudly, too" Your ears aren't given room to breathe".[23] Jon Hadusek of Consequence of Sound also blamed Rubin for the production, "Rubin...deserves disparagement for the way he mixed the audio levels, which are crushed by distortion and compression. Otherwise well-recorded songs are blemished, an affliction all too pervasive in the modern music industry".[24]

Another album produced by Rubin, Californication by Red Hot Chili Peppers, also received criticism for what Tim Anderson of The Guardian called "excessive compression and distortion" in the process of digital mastering.[25] Stylus Magazine labeled it as one of the victims of the loudness war and commented that it suffered from digital clipping so much that "even non-audiophile consumers complained about it".[26]

The most well known example of the loudness war prior to 13 was the 2008 Metallica album, Death Magnetic. Since release, the Guitar Hero version of Death Magnetic has been often turned to for optimal listening because it doesn't have the sonic problems heard on the official CD release. It's widely thought that these issues are not present in the Guitar Hero version of the album because of the fact that each of the four members instrument/vocal tracks are present in separate form because of how the game functions (in that each track will be muted if notes are missed/not played in game). These master tracks were sent to the game publishers before a process called peak limiting could occur in the mastering process, which explains why we don't hear the clearly audible distortion found on the CD.[27][28] Sean Michaels of The Guardian explains that "the sound issues are a result of the 'loudness war' – an ongoing industry effort to make recordings as loud as possible".[29]ht on SNL. Although Rubin is regarded as one of best producers of the last 20 year, I thought it was interesting that he is also credited with creating the loudness wars."

Rick Rubin is one of the very best producers of the past twenty years for a number of reasons, too many to mention.

The work he did with Johnny Cash alone, who was essentially never going to record again with out prompting from Rubin gets him into the RNR Hall of Fame. Same goes for the two albums he did with Neil Diamond.

He produced some of the very best records of the last decade including those by Audioslave, and far too many to mention.

The last two records he produced by the Avett Brothers, including their brand new Magpie and the Dandelion, are their very best.

As far as compression and loudness is concerned. The evidence shows he is not the perp. The Audioslave and Avett records and
the 50 or so others I own produced by him are not crushed to death and loud beyond comprehension.

Some of the records that did come out loud and crushed, like the Metallica and Peppers, were calculated decisions by the artists and
record companies.

Rubin owns a state of the art audio system wired with Shunyata. He knows what he is doing.
 
No it was Rick Rubin who said compression would become known as the sound of R&R.

Bob Ludwig is quoted as saying that the sound of rock and roll IS compression. Not in a way that destroys the dynamic range, but
in a way that lets the music breathe. There is not a single classic rock or pop recording made with out the use of compression at
tracking, otherwise the engineers would be riding the faders non stop and the mix would be a nightmare. They used to use hand built
tube compressors, now they use tube compressor emulation "plug ins".
 
Do not Shoot the sound engineer & producer; Shoot the musicians.

Many well known musicians [vocal & instrumental] would never be known without the people in the dark areas of the studios.

zz.
 
Rubin owns a state of the art audio system wired with Shunyata. He knows what he is doing.

Sounds like he knows what he is doing when he makes records that are compressed to death.
 
Bob Ludwig is quoted as saying that the sound of rock and roll IS compression. Not in a way that destroys the dynamic range, but
in a way that lets the music breathe. There is not a single classic rock or pop recording made with out the use of compression at
tracking, otherwise the engineers would be riding the faders non stop and the mix would be a nightmare. They used to use hand built
tube compressors, now they use tube compressor emulation "plug ins".

Well they may have both said that because that quote comes directly from someone who knows and talks with Rubin.

And have you compared the dynamic range of rock recordings from the 70s with the crap foisted on the public today? There is no comparison.
 
Do you own any Rick Rubin produced albums? If so which ones?

Did you read the critics comments about his recordings? It's scary when you read that "non" audiophiles complained about the sound.
 
Well they may have both said that because the comes directly from someone who knows and talks with Rubin.

The problem is the word "compression" can be used many ways. Compress vocal while tracking to protect against peaks? Compress drums to ensure
a consistent level? Compress an entire mix? Compress an entire album to make it "louder"?

Bob Ludwig, who has spoken out against the so called Loudness Wars, has mastered some of the most crushed albums I have ever purchased.
The last Coldplay album had a DR of 4! The Queen remasters where a soul crushing disappointment. SCREAMING loud. 15 db louder than the first batch of remasters on Hollywood Records.

Conversely, the last GNR album, Chinese Democracy, despite being a somewhat over blown rock recording, had plenty of DR. And that is because Axel Rose decided on the least compressed mix. Ludwig prepared 5 versions, ranging from minor compression to massive compression and let him choose.

So we also need to ask who is driving he bus here? The mastering engineers? The record companies? The artists? I happen to know
it varies case by case.
 
The problem is the word "compression" can be used many ways. Compress vocal while tracking to protect against peaks? Compress drums to ensure
a consistent level? Compress an entire mix? Compress an entire album to make it "louder"?

Bob Ludwig, who has spoken out against the so called Loudness Wars, has mastered some of the most crushed albums I have ever purchased.
The last Coldplay album had a DR of 4! The Queen remasters where a soul crushing disappointment. SCREAMING loud. 15 db louder than the first batch of remasters on Hollywood Records.

Conversely, the last GNR album, Chinese Democracy, despite being a somewhat over blown rock recording, had plenty of DR. And that is because Axel Rose decided on the least compressed mix. Ludwig prepared 5 versions, ranging from minor compression to massive compression and let him choose.

So we also need to ask who is driving he bus here? The mastering engineers? The record companies? The artists? I happen to know
it varies case by case.

While that's true, we're talking about Rick Rubin and the precedent he intends to set.

And there's a difference between being the exception and the rule. The GNR is the exception. It's like good sounding recordings today. It's more often a mistake than planning.
 
Did you read the critics comments about his recordings? It's scary when you read that "non" audiophiles complained about the sound.

Yes, I understand. But again, it was Metallica and other that chose this.

I have been playing the last two Avett Brothers albums which sound amazing. The three Audioslave records are just incredible sounding.

So there is no Rick Rubin agenda to crush every album IMO.
 

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