Purity and Sterility-Do They Intersect?

[mep]

I thought about this after I inserted the Krell KRC-HR into my system where it replaced my KBL. My initial thoughts were that the KRC-HR had a touch more purity than the KBL. I had thought the KBL was the purest, and lowest in distortion and noise of any preamp I have ever had in my system.

And now after only a few days of listening to and coming to grips with the sound of the KRC-HR, I have nagging doubts creeping in that the sound of my system has transferred from one of purity to one of sterility. Maybe it’s too clean if that makes sense. But not clean like some more distortion has been swept away (which honestly I don’t know if that would possible given how clean the KBL is), more like some harmonic content has been wiped off the musical landscape.

And so my question: Are purity and sterility mutually exclusive properties or do they intersect at some point? Maybe I just need more time listening to the KRC-HR to answer my own question. Right now, I kind of want to put the KBL back in the system.

 

[MylesBAstor]

I thought about this after I inserted the Krell KRC-HR into my system where it replaced my KBL. My initial thoughts were that the KRC-HR had a touch more purity than the KBL. I had thought the KBL was the purest, and lowest in distortion and noise of any preamp I have ever had in my system.

And now after only a few days of listening to and coming to grips with the sound of the KRC-HR, I have nagging doubts creeping in that the sound of my system has transferred from one of purity to one of sterility. Maybe it’s too clean if that makes sense. But not clean like some more distortion has been swept away (which honestly I don’t know if that would possible given how clean the KBL is), more like some harmonic content has been wiped off the musical landscape.

And so my question: Are purity and sterility mutually exclusive properties or do they intersect at some point? Maybe I just need more time listening to the KRC-HR to answer my own question. Right now, I kind of want to put the KBL back in the system.

Or is it revealing a problem elsewhere?

 

[Johnny Vinyl]

I don't really know how to describe purity in audio, but perhaps it's one of naturalness or honesty. Sterility in audio brings to mind something that is non-engaging or leaving me cold.

 

[mep]

Or is it revealing a problem elsewhere?

Like what though Myles? It sounds the same across three different sources. I was told that the KBL sounded more like Solution electronics and that the KRC had more 'soul.' I hear the exact opposite so far.

 

[AMP]

And so my question: Are purity and sterility mutually exclusive properties or do they intersect at some point? Maybe I just need more time listening to the KRC-HR to answer my own question. Right now, I kind of want to put the KBL back in the system.

Semantics aside (as I think we all use a slightly different audiophile thesaurus) I think that you are likely onto something. I've encountered this many times in the past and the most notable was replacing the Rowland model 9s with the 301s. By all accounts they should have been "better" and they were. More detail, better control, etc, etc. The problem was that they sucked the soul out of the music and left me, frankly, bored.

More often than not I've experienced this situation with cables which is why I've jumped off the cable merry-go-round and will simply stick with what I like.

I agree with Myles and you may have run into a situation where the KRC has exposed another weakness in your system or nullified the synergy your system had with the KBL.

Typically when I've made a change and had that nagging feeling that something wasn't right something was, indeed, wrong. Usually I end up doing anything else other than listening when I'm in this situation and that's the key warning sign that I look for. Put the KBL back in and see what happens.

 

[JackD201]

You've got a lot of weapons in your arsenal, post amplifier, to fatten up the sound Mark. New pieces usually start these little set up chain reactions, but you know that. Hard to do right now with a torn bicep but I'm sure you'll get around to it.

 

[microstrip]

Mep,

You can not expect to swap the preamplfier and get instantaneous reward just because you swapped it. Audio reproduction is a system approach. IMHO , you have changed for a better preamplfier, but most probably you have optimized your system and room for the old one. Consider moving the speakers, different interconnects and power cables. The sound differences you get are systematic using vinyl and digital?

Most probably you know it, but the KRC was launched for the KSA250. And the KRC HR is just a KRC with the Penny and Gilles motorized potentiometer replaced by a switched resistor array volume system. It sounds more detailed than the original, but keeps the basic sound.

 

[mep]

You've got a lot of weapons in your arsenal, post amplifier, to fatten up the sound Mark. New pieces usually start these little set up chain reactions, but you know that. Hard to do right now with a torn bicep but I'm sure you'll get around to it.

Jack-Do you mean moving the speakers around?

 

[mep]

Mep,

You can not expect to swap the preamplfier and get instantaneous reward just because you swapped it. Audio reproduction is a system approach. IMHO , you have changed for a better preamplfier, but most probably you have optimized your system and room for the old one. Consider moving the speakers, different interconnects and power cables. The sound differences you get are systematic using vinyl and digital?

Micro-Yes, the differences I hear between the KBL and the KRC-HR are the same across vinyl, tape, and digital.

Most probably you know it, but the KRC was launched for the KSA250. And the KRC HR is just a KRC with the Penny and Gilles motorized potentiometer replaced by a switched resistor array volume system. It sounds more detailed than the original, but keeps the basic sound.

Actually, I thought the KBL was designed for the KSA-250. As far as different ICs or PCs, I wouldn't possibly know where to start.

 

[MylesBAstor]

Like what though Myles? It sounds the same across three different sources. I was told that the KBL sounded more like Solution electronics and that the KRC had more 'soul.' I hear the exact opposite so far.

What are you using that is the same across all three sources?

 

[Bill Hart]

Also don't forget stupid ****, like footers under the new preamp. Can make a huge difference. I agree about having to 'adjust' the system. Dumb example- i changed out the record weight on my turntable. It changed the sound of the system.
It now sounds better, because the factory weight created an artificial sort of propulsiveness in the upper bass region that gave the system more apparent 'thwack' but the reality was, I wasn't really getting more information- it just changed the sonic balance (and made the system sound louder). Changing some things on the crossovers and fiddling with it for several days brought it around. Then I changed line stages. More big differences, not for the worse, but still required more fiddling to get the system to sound integrated. Just sayin.
As somebody said here already, it ain't plug and play. That's why we like this hobby, remember?

 

[mep]

What are you using that is the same across all three sources?

MIT ICs and speaker cables.

 

[mep]

Also don't forget stupid ****, like footers under the new preamp. Can make a huge difference. I agree about having to 'adjust' the system. Dumb example- i changed out the record weight on my turntable. It changed the sound of the system.
It now sounds better, because the factory weight created an artificial sort of propulsiveness in the upper bass region that gave the system more apparent 'thwack' but the reality was, I wasn't really getting more information- it just changed the sonic balance (and made the system sound louder). Changing some things on the crossovers and fiddling with it for several days brought it around. Then I changed line stages. More big differences, not for the worse, but still required more fiddling to get the system to sound integrated. Just sayin.
As somebody said here already, it ain't plug and play. That's why we like this hobby, remember?

The Krell KRC-HR has some funky spongy feet. Whether or not they are the cat's meow, I don't know.

 

[bretdago]

The Krell KRC-HR has some funky spongy feet. Whether or not they are the cat's meow, I don't know.

Keep playing it, let it get settled... Takes about 3 days I found. Feat are made of EAR material, pretty non-resonant actually.
Having fun with it I hope...

 

[JackD201]

Jack-Do you mean moving the speakers around?

That's one, then there are your subwoofer settings, settling time...... ya know whatcha got a do bro

 

[JackD201]

I think plopping in any new component and expecting it to be at its best is wishful thinking.

 

[mep]

Keep playing it, let it get settled... Takes about 3 days I found. Feat are made of EAR material, pretty non-resonant actually.
Having fun with it I hope...

Bret-You are exactly correct-it took three days. Why that is so will be asked by those who love to ask and debate those types of questions. I put it in the system on Wednesday after it arrived around 7:15 PM via UPS. By the time I got the KRC-HR unpacked, carried downstairs, removed the KBL, and installed the HR-KRC and got it powered it up it had to be around 8:30 PM. Last night when I went down to listen to the system, the KRC-HR had been on for 3 days continuously.

Wow. My system now has its mojo and its swagger back and then some. For whatever reason, it finally came together last night. The sterility that I was complaining about has vanished and everything sounds like it is fleshed out the way it should be. The purity is still there, but so is a bigger soundstage and an even more solid bottom end.

If this is the sound I’m going to have every time I listen to music, I’m real fine with that.

 

[microstrip]

Micro-Yes, the differences I hear between the KBL and the KRC-HR are the same across vinyl, tape, and digital.



Actually, I thought the KBL was designed for the KSA-250. As far as different ICs or PCs, I wouldn't possibly know where to start.

Yes, but the KRC was presented in 1991, when the KSA250 was still being manufactured. The new line of KSA's, using sliding class A controlled by microprocessors, only showed in 1993.

I feel happy that warmup time seems to have solved your problems! I was thinking about a known problem of the KRC2 - overload at the input - because your Mytek is high output, but as far as I remember this was not a problem of the KRC.

 

[JackD201]

Yeah, that's what counts Glad his pre got its mojo back before he tore up his other arm with my now useless advice. LOL!!!

 

[Rockdove]

Krell KREc-HR pre

while i believe in warm-up, like a few hours, as far as strictly a technical, proven matter for many components that have devices that heat up, i certainly agree that wishful thinking is certainly an expectation bias. anyway we all approach things differently and marks happy again.

Hi,
I've owned one of these pre-amps for around 2 years now. My previous pam-7 & pam-5.
In my setup, when I first got it did sound rather sterile or clinical at first.
It really didn't open up until about week later. I found the previous pre-amp's had a similar presentation when first powered up.
I've never heard a KBL, so can't really comment on it.
To my ears/system the KRC-HR is one the finest pre's I've heard, while I think some of the bigger Aye's better it-just!
I've no intention of letting it go, that's one way i'd describe this amp.