Pls kindly recommend which combo could be better?

[Andrew Stenhouse]

Interesting takes on where you prioritise your spend.

It strikes me that the OP should audition the two options he has in his space and buy the one he prefers.

 

[LL21]

David says the Speaker is the most important, so I am very hesitant.

wilson audio alexia + Gryphon Diablo 300 or sasha2+Boulder 1010 1060

I wonder which combo should be my first choice if they have the same budget.Thank you.

Hi boodokhan,

Great options. I'll give it a [very personal] go.

1. GENERAL
Most audiophiles dont keep their stuff, and instead end up upgrading/switching at some point. So from a money perspective, it can be important to think BEYOND your current system so you dont 'check mate' yourself into have to lose a lot of money on your earlier purchases because they dont fit into your upgraded future system. I DO tend to think this way, but thats me.

Lets put this to one side and IGNORE it for now.

2. ELECTRONICS
If the above 2 options are your ONLY 2 options, i will take some guesses:

- The Gryphon Diablo and the Boulder 1010/1060 are probably both excellent amps. I suspect they are potentially evenly matched in the grand scheme of things. Thus, personal taste will outweigh and technical superiority of one over the other (if any).

(NOTE: I am familiar with Gryphon having owned and auditioned Gryhon for nearly 7-8 consecutive years. I have listened and nearly bought the Boulder 2060 (instead of my current Gryphon Colosseum). I ONLY know what i have discussed with fellow Gryphon owners or Boulder owners about the Diable/1010-1060.)

3. SPEAKERS
On the other hand, if someone offered to give me Alexias or Sasha 2s, (personally), i would take Alexias every time. All day long.

- Finally, on how the components work, i auditioned Boulder with the big Wilsons and of course Gryphon. I did end up liking both amps, but obviously preferred Gryphon. So in terms of how components fare together, i personally like Gryphon with Wilson...but could EASILY have picked Boulder with Wilson, particularly once one considers all the other elements of a system (source, cabling, room, etc)

SUMMARY
- In sum, I am very happy to vote "Gryphon Alexia", more due to the speakers than the electronics which again i feel are evenly matched. In terms of budget, i feel that the amps (in my mind) feel like i got about equivalent quality power between the two. Someone who is far more familiar might say no way, and i respect that...this is my instinct. But the Alexia is more speaker. I suspect that if you can fit one in your room, you have an excellent of fitting the other. Wilsons are very adjustable, and both have small footprints as well.

good luck, sounds like you're in for a winning system either way you go. Best wishes.

 

[FrantzM]

The source is most important. Resolution and tonality starts at the source. Rather spend money on a great source than on the best speaker. No speaker can rescue what is lacking from the source. The resolution of the amp is also critical.

I suppose that the David you mention is David Wilson. Of course he would say that the speaker is most important. He is a speaker manufacturer.

Speakers won't rescue but you can improve the source much faster and for less than the speaker. Everything else being equal. There is such a thing as a better speaker unless you go fully active then we're really talking about a system ... to repeat myself
I would assume that the OP has settled on source. The OP was quite specific on the combos .. To me the better was the one with the better speakers.

 

[microstrip]

Hi

The notion of "system" is brandished very often by some in the audiophile community. It does have some merit. You would not for example get the best out of a 3 watts SET if you were to use it with an 80 dB/w/m speaker .. flea-power SET to drive a Magico Q5 or worse a MBL 101... Past those obvious and IMHO absurd pairing, I fail to see how a Gryphon Diablo (300 solid Watts per channel) would not drive the Alexia well.. Having said this, audiophiles talk about the system approach but mostly reject active speakers, the epitome of a system: Speakers with multiple amps specially conceived to work with specific drivers within their range of operation. They are as rare as it can be in the High End Audio ecosystem.
As for the Valve vs SS, I have heard Wilson with both and would go for the SS. the OP also asked about two SS amps ...

Fact : Assuming adequate and well treated room, speakers are the foundation of a good system.. calls to the contrary aside. You start with the best speaker (and , again, room) you can get and move toward the amplification your current budget can afford you. There is a lot of calls for amps first. i believe those are more of a manifestation of an Audiophile ethos than results-based high fidelity system building

System matching and synergy are much more than simply matching power and sensitivity - as usual you try to minimize a concept you do not valuate or understand (I am not trying to educate, we debated it before in long posts, even the origin of this need) misrepresenting it. Many power amplifiers will drive the Alexia perfectly, but I would not pair them. High-end is much more than "driving".

Fact - you fail to understand that are no "best" components in high-end. High-end targets to a "preference" and there are many ways to achieve it. We are friendly debating opinions on how to assemble a system. The only real and useful facts we can present here are descriptions of real situations, not absurd extremes. Trying to present opinions as facts does not help. Most audiophiles build or have build their systems around the amplifier (including me) because the amplifier can give nuances of real subjective similarity to the reproduction of music than no speaker can emulate. I have done both ways assembling my own systems - building around Dartzeel electronics, building around conrad johnson, building around Audio Research, building around Quad ESL63, buiding around Aida's, building around Soundlabs. IMHO logistics and secondary reasons, such as availability of used goods at nice prices, presence of knowledgeable experts and dealers, will perhaps determine which is the more successful way.

I quote the words of Nelson Pass of Passlabs

Our real customers care most about the experience they get when
they sit down to listen to their music. We create amplifiers that we
like to listen to, on the assumption that we share similar taste.

Or Samuel Grant of Shunyata

The High End is the reign of the small differences

I think no one doubts that Alexia's, Sasha's, Gryphon and Boulder are high end products and should be debated in this context ...

 

[microstrip]

(...)
2. ELECTRONICS
If the above 2 options are your ONLY 2 options, i will take some guesses:

- The Gryphon Diablo and the Boulder 1010/1060 are probably both excellent amps. I suspect they are potentially evenly matched in the grand scheme of things. Thus, personal taste will outweigh and technical superiority of one over the other (if any).

(NOTE: I am familiar with Gryphon having owned and auditioned Gryhon for nearly 7-8 consecutive years. I have listened and nearly bought the Boulder 2060 (instead of my current Gryphon Colosseum). I ONLY know what i have discussed with fellow Gryphon owners or Boulder owners about the Diable/1010-1060.)

Loyd,

Just thinking loud - the Gryphon is an integrated. The Boulder are separates. You have an excellent, but strongly typed cj tube preamplifier with the Gryphon power amplifier.

I think it is very risky to extrapolate from this situation.

People know I am always very conservative in the debate integrated versus separates debate. Currently hosting a Dartzeel 8550 integrated and a NH18 / NH108 pre/power in my house only makes my beliefs stronger. As they say, nigh and day.

In the end it is always the monetary question. With unlimited funds ...

 

[Al M.]

Speakers won't rescue but you can improve the source much faster and for less than the speaker. Everything else being equal.

That of course assumes that the speaker should be the most expensive component of a system, or is the most important one. There are schools of thought who would argue otherwise.

 

[microstrip]

That of course assumes that the speaker should be the most expensive component of a system, or is the most important one. There are schools of thought who would argue otherwise.

My source is more expensive than my current speakers. IMHO spending in a top source was one of my best decisions - since then I have been really enjoying CDs and could listen to speakers sounding their best.

 

[bonzo75]

I have owned a solid state amplifier that sounds great with Wilson speakers, even the X2S2 - the conrad johnson premier 350. And a few people have reported great results with Lamm hybrids such as the M1.2 reference. I have listened to the Momentum's sounding very good in the Alexia's but with the top Transparent Audio cabling than costs a almost as much as the speakers and a top source. BruceB used his Alexia's with Pass with great success (but without the Transparent Audio cables).

Yes even the Momentum's I heard had the Opus MM2 cabling. Never heard the CJ 350, want to demo it. A bridged Luxman M800/900 is another great SS power option

 

[MadFloyd]

T
I suppose that the David you mention is David Wilson. Of course he would say that the speaker is most important. He is a speaker manufacturer.

You beat me to it, Al.

My opinion: speakers are the place to start. Getting the right size speaker for your room is obviously important and then finding the amplification that is proper for speaker is next. With some speakers your choices are going to be more limited.

However, if you buy Alexias you might end up spending a lot of money to fix what cannot be fixed - or rather mask its imperfections. I say 'might' because it obviously depends on your listening preferences and whether you are sensitive to certain distortions etc.

 

[PeterA]

That of course assumes that the speaker should be the most expensive component of a system, or is the most important one. There are schools of thought who would argue otherwise.

I am reminded of well known statements by Linn and by Wilson. Personally, I am conflicted on this issue. Sorry for weaving off topic.

For what it is worth, I preferred the Alexia to the Sasha2. Both are very difficult loads. I have not heard either speaker driven by the two amps in the OP. Best to try to audition the actual combinations in question.

 

[bonzo75]

I think TT much more important than amps. Many good amps that can drive various speakers. But if speaker and TT set up is right you will be fine.

 

[FrantzM]

System matching and synergy are much more than simply matching power and sensitivity - as usual you try to minimize a concept you do not valuate or understand (I am not trying to educate, we debated it before in long posts, even the origin of this need) misrepresenting it. Many power amplifiers will drive the Alexia perfectly, but I would not pair them. High-end is much more than "driving".

Fact - you fail to understand that are no "best" components in high-end. High-end targets to a "preference" and there are many ways to achieve it. We are friendly debating opinions on how to assemble a system. The only real and useful facts we can present here are descriptions of real situations, not absurd extremes. Trying to present opinions as facts does not help. Most audiophiles build or have build their systems around the amplifier (including me) because the amplifier can give nuances of real subjective similarity to the reproduction of music than no speaker can emulate. I have done both ways assembling my own systems - building around Dartzeel electronics, building around conrad johnson, building around Audio Research, building around Quad ESL63, buiding around Aida's, building around Soundlabs. IMHO logistics and secondary reasons, such as availability of used goods at nice prices, presence of knowledgeable experts and dealers, will perhaps determine which is the more successful way.

I quote the words of Nelson Pass of Passlabs

Our real customers care most about the experience they get when
they sit down to listen to their music. We create amplifiers that we
like to listen to, on the assumption that we share similar taste.

Or Samuel Grant of Shunyata

The High End is the reign of the small differences

I think no one doubts that Alexia's, Sasha's, Gryphon and Boulder are high end products and should be debated in this context ...

and as usual you try to make it more complicated than it has to be ... We're talking about a Gryphon Diablo for heaven's sake!! @300 w/ch .. A Gryphon product !!?? And you think it wouldn't drive sublimely (read: make incredibly satisfying, soul-stirring music) the Alexia? How would you explain the vast array of amplifiers being used by Wilson speakers? Both in demo and in actual systems ? Actually with any speakers.. While you cannot commit yourself to it: Why not simply go active? Synergy as intended by the Engineers who designed the ..system ... if you subscribe to their mantras or else you would buy your favorite amp and find the speakers to match it... How would you know for sure if your favorite amp wouldn't sound better with another speaker? a crapshoot?
If we were to conduct a sampling of what actual WBFers use for their Wilson speakers you would see an incredible array from Boulder, ARC, CJ. D'Agostino, Krell, Lamm, Manley, Pass, VTL, Ypsilon on various Wilson speakers? I would assume that these people are certainly getting their money's worth, wouldn't you say the same thing?

 

[LL21]

Loyd,

Just thinking loud - the Gryphon is an integrated. The Boulder are separates. You have an excellent, but strongly typed cj tube preamplifier with the Gryphon power amplifier.

I think it is very risky to extrapolate from this situation.

People know I am always very conservative in the debate integrated versus separates debate. Currently hosting a Dartzeel 8550 integrated and a NH18 / NH108 pre/power in my house only makes my beliefs stronger. As they say, nigh and day.

In the end it is always the monetary question. With unlimited funds ...

Hi Micro,

Great to hear from you. No doubt your observations about 'how i hear Gryphon' are correct. That said, i think my real point is that i will 'guess' the differences between the Alexia and Sasha 2 are greater than those of the Gryphon Diablo vs Boulder 1010/1065. So if those 2 pairings are the ONLY options, i go for Diablo/Alexia over 1010-1060/Sasha 2.

 

[Ron Resnick]

I think bonzo and I did boodokhan a disservice here. Boodokhan asked a simple question about A combo versus B combo, with both combinations using solid-state amplifiers. He asked nothing about tubes, or about tubes versus solid-state.

Bonzo then suggested tubes rather than solid-state, but that is an answer to a question which was not asked. I then compounded the mistake by agreeing with Bonzo. And then the thread deteriorated into the usual partisan tubes versus solid-state debate.

I apologize for seconding bonzo's post and for taking the thread further astray.

 

[microstrip]

and as usual you try to make it more complicated than it has to be ... We're talking about a Gryphon Diablo for heaven's sake!! @300 w/ch .. A Gryphon product !!?? And you think it wouldn't drive sublimely (read: make incredibly satisfying, soul-stirring music) the Alexia? How would you explain the vast array of amplifiers being used by Wilson speakers? Both in demo and in actual systems ? Actually with any speakers.. While you cannot commit yourself to it: Why not simply go active? Synergy as intended by the Engineers who designed the ..system ... if you subscribe to their mantras or else you would buy your favorite amp and find the speakers to match it... How would you know for sure if your favorite amp wouldn't sound better with another speaker? a crapshoot?
If we were to conduct a sampling of what actual WBFers use for their Wilson speakers you would see an incredible array from Boulder, ARC, CJ. D'Agostino, Krell, Lamm, Manley, Pass, VTL, Ypsilon on various Wilson speakers? I would assume that these people are certainly getting their money's worth, wouldn't you say the same thing?

You try to mix apples, oranges and now bananas (the actives). My advice is simple - no one with direct experience can give a firm advise, as the variables and unknowns are too many. And the high end is complicated.

And again you prove my points elaborating long vague lists of hypothetic cases without the proper details. I enumerate my limited known cases with direct experience. Recently I could help comparing integrated amplifiers in the lovely and great sounding Wilson Sabrina. In the particular system and medium sized room the worst sounding was by far the Constellation Audio integrated. And one of best sounds I listened in my audiophile life was the Hercules / Altair Constellation Audio's driving Wilson XLF's!

Concerning the OP - most people will have direct experience of the Alexia versus the original Sasha. It is really a great difference. The Sasha 2 is a different speaker, with large improvements over the original speaker. One friend owner of original Sasha I know well could have easily upgraded from the Alexia, but recently decided to upgrade to Sasha 2 based on what he had listened, spending the difference elsewhere in his system. At that time I tried to persuade him to get my Alexia's , but had to acknowledge his decision was the proper one.

I will address the bananas later in a separate post.

 

[TBone]

And the high end is complicated.

 

[microstrip]

View attachment 26388

Great, but thinking about the high-end I love this one. Sometimes we find ourselves wanting to rebuild the bridge ...

 

[TBone]

 

[FrantzM]

You try to mix apples, oranges and now bananas (the actives). My advice is simple - no one with direct experience can give a firm advise, as the variables and unknowns are too many. And the high end is complicated.

And again you prove my points elaborating long vague lists of hypothetic cases without the proper details. I enumerate my limited known cases with direct experience. Recently I could help comparing integrated amplifiers in the lovely and great sounding Wilson Sabrina. In the particular system and medium sized room the worst sounding was by far the Constellation Audio integrated. And one of best sounds I listened in my audiophile life was the Hercules / Altair Constellation Audio's driving Wilson XLF's!

Concerning the OP - most people will have direct experience of the Alexia versus the original Sasha. It is really a great difference. The Sasha 2 is a different speaker, with large improvements over the original speaker. One friend owner of original Sasha I know well could have easily upgraded from the Alexia, but recently decided to upgrade to Sasha 2 based on what he had listened, spending the difference elsewhere in his system. At that time I tried to persuade him to get my Alexia's , but had to acknowledge his decision was the proper one.

I will address the bananas later in a separate post.

SO in your ways of doing things what should he do? Listen to every single combination possible? Ok!

or your advice is no advice .. As simple .. as possible

 

[KeithR]

I would take the Alexias with Gryphon. Note, I'm not particularly a Boulder fan to begin with as I haven't heard a convincing demo with their gear. I've heard Alexias with Einstein OTLs hit the protection circuitry fwiw. They need some juice and an amp that is kind to the 2 ohm load down low. I think your Gryphon would have no trouble doing that.