Congratulations on the C8+! It is an excellent sounding DAC - if it was not for DCS I would have one in my system. Have you heard about the forthcoming Kalista DAC?
Please help me decide on one of these tables!!
- Thread starter bebop86
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Congratulations on the C8+! It is an excellent sounding DAC - if it was not for DCS I would have one in my system. Have you heard about the forthcoming Kalista DAC?
In this trip, when we heard the Kronos Sparta with a 2k Shelter cartridge and 7.5k Luxman phono, for 4 of us (including Gian60 on this forum, his friend, and the dealer), the TT set up was easily better than the Metronome top of the line CD player and Kalista dac. Documented in the link below. At least on acoustic classical. On amplified I could not make out the difference but did not know the tracks, ask Gian. So you will be quite happy with any of the these TTs you buy compared to your digital as long as you set it up right.
One day I will take my Lampi to the store and in front of the others shootout (or shoot to kill) that Kalista
http://zero-distortion.org/the-italian-over-the-top-road-trip/
FIY, the Kalista DAC will be unvealed in Munich next week, and Metronome top DACs should be used with the matching CD transport, not with the CD player. IMHO it was an unfair comparison unless you also used a Shure M44 in the turntable ... YMMV.
It was the matching transport. I did not know it is not an individual CD player too. It is the 85k or so matched pairing. Why was it an unfair compare?
If it is really the matching transport it was not the CD player ... What was exactly the DAC?
Ok- So is it safe to assume that either the SME or the Raven- will be heads and shoulders better than the artisan fidelity Lenco 75 with Origin Conq. arm I have now- Cannot demo these tables as they are boxed up-?? the Kuzma is out as way to much$$ for the time that I listen- The SME was supposed to have been Robertson Aikmans personal unit which was completely updated in 2009 and then they updated the power supply in 2014 and SME did a full service before selling to the guy I know- He also got a brand new platter as the one with the table was scratched and the SME 5 arm is brand new- So it sounds like it should be almost a new table??- Any questions I should be asking thanks
It was the top level Kalista. I am not sure about model names. Together the retail was roughly 85k. And in the other room he had the smaller dac, CD player, and metronome streamer
I owned a garrad 401, there was always some motor noise in the background, experimented with several plinths. I then had a LP12 before moving on to a SME 20/12a. I bought my Kuzma XL4 after a side by side comparison with the sme, I have upgraded it to the DC single motor version now, well worthwhile.
A few years ago an acquaintance purchased the Kuzma XL2 after a home demo comparison with the SME 30/2 by Definitive audio, a very respected dealer in the UK. The Kuzma plays everything well, classical, jazz etc. It needs an isolated support to sound of its best.
I have not heard the raven so cannot comment.
A few years ago an acquaintance purchased the Kuzma XL2 after a home demo comparison with the SME 30/2 by Definitive audio, a very respected dealer in the UK. The Kuzma plays everything well, classical, jazz etc. It needs an isolated support to sound of its best.
I have not heard the raven so cannot comment.
Dave, I run a rim drive Trans Fi Salvation tt, and for what it does well (punch, bass extension, timing etc), I'm somewhat perceiving it may be lacking in top end shimmer, microdynamics and ultimate transparency
I'm attributing this to likely increased rumble issues related to motor noise
The Kuzma Stabi M is really the only belt drive tt I'd seriously consider ditching rim drive for
Can I ask you whether the move yrself to Kuzma has been win/win overall compared to yr 401, or whether you feel the Garrard idler has the measure of yr Kuzma in any respects?
Despite shortcomings in my rim drive, what it does well it does really well, and I'm skeptical a move back to belt drive won't leave me seriously missing these positives
I'm attributing this to likely increased rumble issues related to motor noise
The Kuzma Stabi M is really the only belt drive tt I'd seriously consider ditching rim drive for
Can I ask you whether the move yrself to Kuzma has been win/win overall compared to yr 401, or whether you feel the Garrard idler has the measure of yr Kuzma in any respects?
Despite shortcomings in my rim drive, what it does well it does really well, and I'm skeptical a move back to belt drive won't leave me seriously missing these positives
It was a while ago I think it was ARC electronics and some unusual custom speakers which had a bronze enclosures??
I remember when I got my XL, JR at midx (when he still sold sme and Kuzma) said he had sold a few XLs to sme owners.
Well I never felt the need to run the 401 instead of the LP12 /ekos (circa 2000) probably due to a lesser arm as well as the rumble issue. I find that I play records now, acquired years ago, that sounded pretty boring on any of the previous TTs. Classical sounds better than ever.
I have been using the TT a lot lately as the GG has been reunited with Lukazs. Playing 40 and 50 year old jazz vinyls odd clicks and a bit of vinyl roar on lesser pressings, music sounds great. Just played a charity shop buy of Bach piano concertos pressed in Germany, totally silent background at quite a high volume, no pitch instability, really good recording. I do clean all the records btw.
Slightly tweaked VTA and speaker placement, very pleased with the current sound.
I would not substitute any aspects of the Kuzma for the 401, however I am sure your TT is superior to the 401.
Dave, just PMd you w my q
Not sure you can say the 401 beats my Salvation, but kudos for being so diplomatic
W rim, idlers and DD to some extent, and certainly more than belt, it is critical that motor vibes are isolated from transmission to stylus via platter
A lot comes down to platter, plinth construction, suspension, bearing etc
The best 301s and 401s have heroic efforts made to max these (check the Shindo, Dobbins and Artisan Fidelity restores), and of course there is Peter Reinders' PTP Solid 9 and 12 tts
My Salvation has a fair bit put into rumble control
I'm just fascinated if you feel there has been anything lacking going from idler to belt
But it seems yr XL lacks for nothing
Not sure you can say the 401 beats my Salvation, but kudos for being so diplomatic
W rim, idlers and DD to some extent, and certainly more than belt, it is critical that motor vibes are isolated from transmission to stylus via platter
A lot comes down to platter, plinth construction, suspension, bearing etc
The best 301s and 401s have heroic efforts made to max these (check the Shindo, Dobbins and Artisan Fidelity restores), and of course there is Peter Reinders' PTP Solid 9 and 12 tts
My Salvation has a fair bit put into rumble control
I'm just fascinated if you feel there has been anything lacking going from idler to belt
But it seems yr XL lacks for nothing
Did you send the GG back for the 256 or 512?
Also, when you say you play classical more now, are you accounting for the fact that your phono and cartridge might be much better too?
Lacks for nothing is overstating it, but it spins vinyl at a constant speed and very quietly. The platter weighs 22kg so I am sure that helps to isolate the playing surface from extraneous noise, the recently introduced DC motor and drive belt also.
Good point, I did think about that - however when I first got the Kuzma, (for some time, had to!) I used the same cartridge and phono as with the sme and those gains were apparent then, probably to a lesser extent, but obvious nontheless. I found myself playing vinyl much more with the Kuzma as it was so much more enjoyable than the digital I had at the time, whereas I had been using digital more when I had the sme.
Another thing with the Kuzma, differences in cartridges became much more apparant.
The GG had 256 already - got the clocks, ps for 242s and R2R.
Everything I hear about Kuzma points to it being the clever choice, uber engineering/materials at reasonable price point
Dave, did you ever consider the Stabi M over the XL?
Or even something like the GPA Monaco 1.5, this the same price as the XL?
Dave, did you ever consider the Stabi M over the XL?
Or even something like the GPA Monaco 1.5, this the same price as the XL?
I bought the XL4 about 5 or 6 years ago before the Stabli M came out. I got it for not a lot more than half price ex demo. I did consider the Monaco but could not get to hear one, and it would have been about 10K more in cost!
I'm sure you've shown a continued interest
I remain a little unsure whether the XL DC is a step above the Stabi M, or just a different presentation
I've heard reliable reports the XL DC is a shade short of the Stabi M on drive, bass power and dynamics, w the XL DC shading things on delicacy, microdynamics and transparency, w maybe the extra mass and seperate armpod contributing to greater isoln, air and ease
And from what I gleaned from R Gregory's conclusions, he gives the verdict to the Monaco 1.5 for greater instrumental seperation and delineation of the musical message, the Kuzma getting the nod from him on density and energy, but declaring the belt drive Kuzma a tad less precise
I remain a little unsure whether the XL DC is a step above the Stabi M, or just a different presentation
I've heard reliable reports the XL DC is a shade short of the Stabi M on drive, bass power and dynamics, w the XL DC shading things on delicacy, microdynamics and transparency, w maybe the extra mass and seperate armpod contributing to greater isoln, air and ease
And from what I gleaned from R Gregory's conclusions, he gives the verdict to the Monaco 1.5 for greater instrumental seperation and delineation of the musical message, the Kuzma getting the nod from him on density and energy, but declaring the belt drive Kuzma a tad less precise
Please Peter, let me know the disadvantages of future upgradeability, ability to use any tonearm length and more than one as needed vs being locked into an as is package with a know negative being the the tonearm!
david
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