Piano Scale System Diagnostic - closed (now piano video clips)

[garylkoh]

I'm sure Bruce meant no harm. I pulled the tracks down because if a seasoned pro like Bruce can fundamentally misunderstand how it can be a useful tool, I don't have the time just now to get sucked into a protracted discussion.

The Smokester has a grand piano (which he plays) in the same space as his system, which was why he thought that he would have found it extremely useful, and hence jumping to my defense. Thanks! Smokester.

 

[Orb]

I'd use it because it shows the complete musical envelope comprised of a complex mix of frequencies as opposed to a sweep. I use sweeps for overall FR response pretty much to look for gross anomalies in the speaker/room interface.

Recordings like this could be helpful in checking out what part of the envelope is being emphasized for a particular speaker set up configuration. Like exaggerated decay for example that could be a product of a room with too long a reverberation time. Going up and down the scale could show you what frequencies need damping. So such a disc would also help the user appreciate ratios between direct sound and reflected sound as he or she played with different on and off axis relationships as it pertains to the phantom image. There are other uses but I'm a bit short on time because I'm going out with some buddies.

As for the genesis of this, sorry I couldn't resist! Gary and I had been having an exchange about following scales when setting up speaker positions to be able to get reasonably consistent image focus and pitch articulation from top to bottom, or in the case of our discussion from the bottom up. The discussion stemmed from a short piece I wrote for newcomers to the hobby, who don't have access to measuring equipment and most probably wouldn't know how to use them or interpret the results even if they did have access via freeware or whatever. I also don't see why more experienced hobbyists can't find some use for it. I don't think Gary ever meant for it to be anything more than a tool and not as a definitive example of what a piano should sound like.

What Bruce pointed out was not an objection to the process but rather to short comings in the recording itself as well as some issues regarding consistency of pressure on the keys which could be easily programmed on MIDI. I didn't see Bruce invalidate or attempt to invalidate the use Gary and Steve have for the recording only that a better set of recordings would be, well......better.



Send me a copy Gary. I'll replace it when someone gets the Bosendorfer folks to program and record one of their own.

Totally agree regarding the envelope, was hoping one day John Atkinson may decide to do this, including possibly an associated test with some audio hardware.

BTW the Bosendorfer has already been done, and in theory is more advanced than the Disklavier
See my post #24.
Its a very loong shot but it may be worth someone contacting them to see if they can provide both single and major chord notes next time the Bosendorfer is setup in the studio (may be doing more recordings in future at Abbey Road studios), using their digital technology that seems very impressive.
http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showt...sm-at-Home-Piano-Recordings&p=20920#post20920

Cheers
Orb

 

[JackD201]

Yes indeed Orb. The Bosendorfer CEUS system is now available. When I first saw it it their website, it excited me more than any piece of audio equipment I've ever laid my eyes on. Heck make that all audio equipment put together. If you're connected to their network which is designed for remote instruction from master pianists, you could listen in on actual sessions. Mind boggling. No system could ever come close. Doubly lust inducing for a piano junkie like me who can't play chopsticks. I wonder if my kids will get into it, show potential and dedication. Then maybe I might have an excuse Looks like one heck of a long shot though. It's sports for them. The musically inclined one likes to sing not play.

 

[garylkoh]

Completely off this topic..... but this discussion reminds me of two piano recordings I love:

1) Dick Hyman plays Fats Waller Direct to CD. Hyman plays a Bosendorfer reproducing piano. Mistakes made and errors in the recorded session was "fixed" directly on the encoding of the session. Then the piano (it was probably another piano) plays itself and the digitizing signal transmitted to the CD Glass master in real time. No tape or recording medium in between.
http://www.cduniverse.com/search/xx/music/pid/1044985/a/Dick+Hyman+Plays+Fats+Waller.htm

2) Michael Tilson Thomson conducts the LA Phil with Gershwin himself playing remotely and through a time machine via a piano roll
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00138J98C/ref=dm_sp_alb

 

[The Smokester]

... Dick Hyman plays Fats Waller Direct to CD. Hyman plays a Bosendorfer reproducing piano. Mistakes made and errors in the recorded session was "fixed" directly on the encoding of the session. Then the piano (it was probably another piano) plays itself and the digitizing signal transmitted to the CD Glass master in real time. No tape or recording medium in between.
http://www.cduniverse.com/search/xx/music/pid/1044985/a/Dick+Hyman+Plays+Fats+Waller.htm...

These are truly great musical recordings by Reference Recordings.

I think that the Fats Waller was "playered" and recorded in a high school auditorium in Santa Ana. Apparently, there are different mastering versions. I was just noticing that this copy I have is not d2d. On my RR-33CD liner notes, it says this rendition was from the same sessions as the d2d, but this "...different 'performance' by the Bosendofer 290SE reproducing piano is an earlier one, when the instrument was in better tune." It goes on to say that this version of the cd is actually from a digital master tape and indicates that relative to the d2d there are slight differences in balance, leveling and equalization (<1dB). The performance for RR-33CD was encoded/edited on a 225SE player piano in New York in December of 1988 and recorded off the 290SE player piano in California in August 1989.

 

[garylkoh]

Correct. I think that I have the version you have. A friend in the club brought over a different version - one in an all-black cover with gold lettering that was supposed to be the direct recording of the original performance. IMHO that version has better musicality, but the RR-33CD has better sonority. I have never ever been able to find that first version......

A comparison also here:
http://www.stereophile.com/recordin..._of_may_1991bidick_hyman_plays_fats_wallerib/

 

[The Smokester]

Gary, Look here:
http://www.cduniverse.com/productinfo.asp?pid=1758595&style=classical

I just ordered it out of curiousity.

 

[Gregadd]

Gary when it comes to piano try this guy.

Note the microphone in the piano.

 

[garylkoh]

Thanks, Greg. He's fab!! Which of his albums would you say are the top 3?

 

[Gregadd]

Thanks, Greg. He's fab!! Which of his albums would you say are the top 3?

Anyything by Gershwin "Gershwinn for Lovers"

Here is a litttle more

 

[The Smokester]

And then there's unbelievable piece by Oscar Peterson (Toronto, RIP):

which can be had on vinyl or cd:

 

[Gregadd]

I've been smoked

 

[Gregadd]

How about this from Ron Carter?

 

[The Smokester]

Good, but I'm stickin' to my Toronto's dead pianists theme:

On cd here (can't find an album cover to link)
http://www.amazon.com/Glenn-Gould-Partitas-Preludes-Fugues/dp/B0000028NH

 

[Jay_S]

How about this from Ron Carter?

Superb. We're getting off topic but keep 'em coming Greg!

 

[Gregadd]

Superb. We're getting off topic but keep 'em coming Greg!

Your wish is my command. I do love the solo piano. I

t puts quite a demand on your stereo and room.

 

[garylkoh]

Superb. We're getting off topic but keep 'em coming Greg!

This is great - I've already bought Nigerian Marketplace. Can't find any Marcus Roberts Gershwin vinyl. I already have Glenn Gould's Bach Partitas, Preludes and Fugues.

I too love the solo piano. As long as I can remember, there has always been a piano in my family room. Except for now.... ever since my sister moved out and took her piano with her.

Keep them coming.

 

[amirm]

My favorite is George Winston. OK, so he is not one of the greats . But has lovely presentation of original and remakes. Here is one of the many pieces I like although the youtube reproduction is just horrid:

 

[garylkoh]

I like Jessica Williams. Her album Live at Yoshi's Vol 1 on MaxJazz is my favourite.
http://www.amazon.com/Live-at-Yoshis-Jessica-Williams/dp/B0002IQCCA/ref=cm_cr_dp_orig_subj

Here's one of her more unusual compositions and performances:

 

[Gregadd]

For Marcus Roberts on vinyl:

http://www.discogs.com/Marcus-Roberts-The-Truth-Is-Spoken-Here/release/2497451