Interesting Mike! Especially since Andy Payor specifically designed the Opus cables with the carbon fiber enclosure to prevent exactly what you heard. But OTOH, we know all this stuff, even carbon fiber, has its own sound
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Phono Preamp to match with Spectral Gear
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Interesting Mike! Especially since Andy Payor specifically designed the Opus cables with the carbon fiber enclosure to prevent exactly what you heard. But OTOH, we know all this stuff, even carbon fiber, has its own sound
My Vibraplane obviously isolates from below, but I have found that by placing a heavy 136 lb steel ballast plate on top of the Vibraplane, not only did I optimize the performance of its isolation, but I also provided a mass into which resonances draining down from my turntable suspension towers can travel and be absorbed/damped. SME offers two footer options: one is a rubber ring under the footers to protect furniture from its massive weight. The other is a steel ball bearing that is exposed when these rubber rings are removed. The ball bearing points allow resonances to drain down and away from the turntable. Well, that is a bit off-topic for this thread.
Ack, congratulations on at least auditioning the XP-25 in your system. I'm sure it will continue to improve and present performance that you only got a hint of when you heard my Pass Xono. Keep the reports coming. I'm very interested in your findings and am pleased that the initial impressions are so promising. If and when you buy the yet to be released Spectral Phono, you can sell me you used XP-25.
Also, now that you have heard my Vibraplanes and Kenny gives a positive report of his under his VPI, this isolation may be another path you could decide to pursue.
Interesting Mike! Especially since Andy Payor specifically designed them with the carbon fiber enclosure to prevent exactly what you heard. But OTOH, we know all this stuff, even carbon fiber, has its own sound
I agree that it was counter intuitive to even try it. but a friend had actually tried some decoupling platforms under some other Transparent network boxes to good effect so I figured it would be easy to just try it.
btw; after thinking about it more I think those standard cones were aluminum, not carbon fiber. anodized and beautifully made......but not working very well.
also; I have a wood over concrete floor and lots of bass energy and dynamics, likely not every system might be as sensitive to changing the cones. but you should try it and see. it is an easy thing to try tweaks on.
Hi Peter,
with the much lower noise floor of the XP-25 I was astonished how quiet my Aries 3 is with all the mods/vibration control tweaks I have made. It may not be obvious from my system's pictures, so here they are again: white lithium grease for the platter/bearing shaft interface (I found the VPI product far too inferior, i.e. noisy); Stillpoints plus EAR Isodamp supporting a granite base; Isodamp plus sorbothane hemispheres supporting the VPI; sorbothane sheet plus Isodamp plus cork supporting the motor. The results are easily verifiable, and in fact, superior to the HRS M3 platform I had back then in house for trial (probably because the M3 is not made to isolate the motor): tap the VPI and there is feedback (which is then quickly absorbed), tap the granite base and the feedback is reduced by about 10dB, tap the motor and I can't hear much of anything, tap the rack and I can't hear much of anything either; all of these are easily verifiable with the Revox as well, with it and the phono at maximum gain.
The Spectral phono remains an option, but I considered the following factors: they are concentrating on amps this year; even if they announce it at next CES I won't be able to have a unit in 2014; I am not enjoying the A90 as much as I could.
The discussion about supporting the MIT network boxes is interesting, and I will try the sorbothane sheet under their metallic spikes.
Very nicely done! Thanks for posting these photos.
Tapping my rack results in dead quiet as well thanks to the Vibraplane. When I tap the VPI, there is feedback, but I wouldn't say that it's quickly absorbed. It's more like it has been quickly dissipated. It would be interesting to A/B these two different Aries 3 tables, as I'm sure they sound different. I've long thought it's best to consider whatever is supporting the Aries as part of the table itself, as the support greatly contributes to how it sounds.
I had tried different applications of Sorbothane and cork, but never applied as eloquently as Ack. I didn't like how these materials effected PRAT and dynamics. Dynamics became more explosive and PRAT improved considerably with the Stillpoints. Bass also improved considerably, becoming more articulate, and less boomy. I will post pictures later showing how I have placed the Stillpoints.
This was exactly my impression after placing Stillpoints cones under my Oracle V3 network boxes.
I had also mentioned that Stillpoints delivered a surprising improvement when used under my Quantum QBASE QB8 power strip. This was first suggested by Roy Gregory on The Audio Beat. In his latest review of Stillpoints (http://www.theaudiobeat.com/equipment/stillpoints.htm) he goes as far as saying that placing Stillpoints under one's power distribution block "should be your first priority." I would have considered this insane had I not tried it for myself. YMMV
Here are clearer pictures with my Canon
And an older picture with the Stillpoint Ultras used as feet for the VPI - didn't do much by themselves, though it would be nice to use them now again with the rest of the stuff as is
OK I put four Goldmund cones under each network box today and the differences are far from subtle. Anyone using Opus or Ref XL or any other TA speaker cable with network boxes should try putting the box on cones (or Stillpoints, etc.).
That's quite interesting. I have REF XL speaker cables. Is the consensus to first try isolation/decoupling devices like Mike did with the Wave Kinetics footers or coupling devices like metal cones/spikes? I am thinking of just quickly trying some bubble wrap that I have lying around from LPs or perhaps placing the network boxes up on my Vibraplanes by sliding over each amp. I suppose one could even try suspending it from rubber bands and stilts. Here we go again.
Certainly suggest trying. The improvement in low end response, noise floor and dynamics was shocking.
My memory is fading but I seem to remember trying the Wavekinetic footers that Mike has under the MIT boxes with success. I've always been more of a fan of tiptoes than sorborthane/elastomer type product so that's why I started with the Goldmund (plus still have a tonload of them around the house).
My Oracle V3 cables had always been spiked to the floor using the metal cones MIT provides. Replacing these metal cones with Stillpoints delivered the big improvement I heard, which is similar to what Miles has reported. Stillpoints provide some isolation from floor-borne vibration, so it's probably best to pursue isolation instead of coupling. But what works best might ultimately depend on the brand of cable and the type of flooring.
Goldmund cones kind of combine both isolation (internal elastomeric damping) and coupling (points). Even to this day, still hold their own.
OK I got some sorbothane underneath the discs of the cables' cones. The difference is not subtle, and quite commensurate with the amount of wine I've had Is this it?
Is this it?
Those VPI feet aren't very effective. I'm using them only as tall threaded risers for the Stillpoints cone. As you can see in my photo above, the cones are screwed into the VPI feet and the cones then point up into mini-inverse risers that are attached underneath the table. These VPI feet turned out to be exactly the right height for this - and they look great too. I do think there's still some room to improve this. I may look into making use of sorbothane given that you've reported having success with it.
At one point I also tried a Stillpoints Component Stand under my table as pictured below. The improvement was slightly greater than with the cones I have in place now. The stand, with cones affixed to the top of it, made an even bigger deal under my DAC, so that's where it's used now.
The newer Ultra products are even better, but I'm a total bottom feeder when it comes to this stuff. I've been able to pick up discontinued Stillpoints products at really good prices.
Kenny, Thanks for the photos and explanation. Have you tried preloading the Vibraplane with a sheet of steel? This made a tremendous difference in my system.
My Vibraplane is at least 15 years old and no longer holds air as well as it used to. I have to refill it and level it at least once a day.
I did once try placing about 20 extra pounds on my Vibraplane - and it did help. But it also caused air to rush out more quickly.
At some point I will need to overhaul the Vibraplane by replacing all the tubing and maybe a few of the valves too. My quick fixes are no longer keeping it afloat for as long as they used to.
You should keep in mind that the extra weight you are placing on your Vibraplane will likely more quickly get you to where I am at today with mine. In hindsight I wish I would have been a lot more careful with it as servicing it is a pain. The darn thing is so heavy that I need to enlist the help of a friend to get it off my rack.
I hear you and am sure this is the case. But I figure at $2,000 per unit, if it lasts 15 years, it will be well worth the cost. I did buy a couple of used units on Ebay and drove them to Kinetic Systems outside of Boston for repair estimates. The estimates were so outrageous, that I just decided to scrap them for parts and buy new units. My buddy has three used units, none of which work well, so he has my parts. Each new valve and/or footer costs about $500. So it might be economical to buy one if it has failed and install it yourself. It is never worth the shipping plus cost of repairs to send these units back to Kinetic Systems, IMO. The company does not want to repair them once they are out of warranty.
Yes, they are heavy at 150 lbs apiece. I then have a 136 lb steel ballast plate on each of my three units plus the 120 lb turntable and 150 lb mono blocks. Lots of weight and air under high pressure, but the results are worth the effort, in my case. I certainly can't move any of this stuff without the help of a friend. He does not mind because he heard all of the various changes to the sound of vinyl as I added these devices and ballast plates to my system.
Mine has so far made it 15 years with only a 40-50 lb table resting on it. Hopefully the additional weight you've placed on yours doesn't reduce the life too much.
You are correct that I should consider it have been well worth the cost given how many years out of it - especially since it originally only set me back around $1000 (it was used). It was listed on Audiogon and I felt fortunate that the seller was only a short drive away from me. I still recall being blown away by how much it improved the sound of my table.
I have considered doing the same many times. I will try one more effort to resuscitate my Vibraplane by replacing the tubing.
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