Objectivists - what REALLY makes your blood boil?

[microstrip]

(...) Some things I have direct experience of & can't explain and/or measure - some of which I would have denied in the past, could have an effect
- the audible effect of silver wire in teflon (don't know if the teflon is the important factor or the silver wire?)) )

John,

The technical reason for difference between silver and copper was explained long ago ... But mystery is part of the business.

 

[jkeny]

Jkenny,
The technical reason for difference between silver and copper was explained long ago ... But mystery is part of the business.

Please fill in my knowledge gaps - maybe it's just a mystery to me? Do the explanations include some measurable differences (apart from small conductivity differences)?

 

[thedudeabides]

As I read his list he was referring to objectivists

Steve,

I saw no specific "list", just a general statement.

This individual said something like "crappy systems" owned by folks that are part of the "O" crowd that even kids think are crappy.

I'm just curious as to who this person(s) is / are referring to. There are certainly many iterations of the "O" type but certainly, some folks (given the quality of their systems and their hearing acuity) are more credible that others.

Sorry if I offended. Not meant to do so.

Best and have a wonderful holiday.

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

Currently listening to Adele's 21. Crappy mastering. My crappy system renders its crappiness too clearly. Wait a minute...I have an EQ preset I call "euphonic"...there, that's better...

P

 

[thedudeabides]

I'm confident that's true. A wonderful album (musically) plagued by very poor recording / mastering / production.

No offense meant towards you.

G

 

[JackD201]

Currently listening to Adele's 21. Crappy mastering. My crappy system renders its crappiness too clearly. Wait a minute...I have an EQ preset I call "euphonic"...there, that's better...

P

Makes me wish I could have at least an expander plug in for iTunes. No EQing could save this album for me using iTunes' GEQ.

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

Makes me wish I could have at least an expander plug in for iTunes. No EQing could save this album for me using iTunes' GEQ.

I just wish I could use the tools from Garageband in iTunes.

Tim

 

[Geardaddy]

Let's take in a different direction....you know what makes my blood boil?

People who insist that Crepes are thin pancakes.

most excellent....

 

[TBG]

I have spent a career as a political scientist, with much training in the scientific method and statistics, trying to apply this to political questions. In hypothesis testing one needs valid measures of the variables of interest. Although objectivists don't realize it they want measures but really cannot deal with the issue of whether they are valid or not. Subjectivists doubt that any measure available are valid. I am a subjectivist of this type.

Unless measures are seen as valid, they are useless. Total Harmonic Distortion is an example. I remember a seminar at the RMAF where Atkinson had two amps on a desk. One was a Bolder and the other unnamed. He continually showed the Bolder to be superior with different loads in terms of THD. I asked whether the designer of the unnamed amp thought THD mattered to the sound and when we were going to hear both amps on speakers. I knew full-well that we were going to hear nothing. Many in the audience expressed dismay at my question. Mr. Atkinson only said that they did not have the capability to listen to the amps. Since I used to love Bolder amps when they first came out but not any longer, I suspected that the no name amp might sound better. I left the room thinking that THD was an invalid measure.

I have also repeatedly been involved in "double blind" tests. The "same/different version is utterly invalid IMHO. But having the equipment out of sight and listening and rating seems valid. But once when I was involved in such an experiment, a Bosak preamp rated best rather than preamps whose designers were among the raters. I had rated it among the middle group, but borrowed one to take home. My Dyna PAS 3 was clearly better.

I would be a strong objectivist were we to have valid measures. I would suggest that a system's ability to resolve the decay of notes if measurable would be valid.

 

[microstrip]

Please fill in my knowledge gaps - maybe it's just a mystery to me? Do the explanations include some measurable differences (apart from small conductivity differences)?

Surely they include some very noticeable differences - a known electrical property with a variation of several orders of magnitude. I am posting on my cellphone, as soon as I get a decent keyboard I will come back. An hint for the specialists and true objectivists - have you ever repaired pcb tracks?

 

[wakibaki]

Like most things, the "truth" is likely somewhere in the middle.

The truth frequently lies at the extreme. Take a look at the Bohr/Einstein debate on quantum entanglement. Only one could be right. It was determined experimentally that Bohr was right. 'Spooky action at a distance'.

The idea that truth lies in the middle springs from an understandable but not entirely admirable desire to evade confrontation. It's frequently a barrier to determining the truth and moving on.

w

 

[arnyk]

I personally enjoy this sort of thread. Well, what makes my blood boil? An objectivist with objectively crappy sound that even a child or pay person would wrinkle their nose at. Despite this "reality," they still manage to remain on their audio thrones passing judgement left and right.

I've seen dozens of subjectivists do exactly the same thing. Especially bad are the vinyl and analog tape bigots.

 

[Geardaddy]

I've seen dozens of subjectivists do exactly the same thing. Especially bad are the vinyl and analog tape bigots.

Yeah, but more often than not, they have sound that won't make your dog howl.

Here is an experiment that is very apropos: http://www.stereophile.com/features/203/

 

[Atmasphere]

Currently listening to Adele's 21. Crappy mastering. My crappy system renders its crappiness too clearly. Wait a minute...I have an EQ preset I call "euphonic"...there, that's better...

P

Sounds better on LP...

 

[Johnny Vinyl]

Sounds better on LP...

But not by much!

 

[Atmasphere]

+!

 

[arnyk]

Yeah, but more often than not, they have sound that won't make your dog howl.

Happily I had disposed of all of my legacy gear long before obtaining my last two dogs, so they never had to howl.\\

Here is an experiment that is very apropos: http://www.stereophile.com/features/203/

You think those are experiments? Please read up on experimental design:

https://explorable.com/design-of-experiment"]https://explorable.com/design-of-experiment

http://www.dummies.com/how-to/content/designing-experiments-using-the-scientific-method.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Design_of_experiments

 

[wakibaki]

What really grinds my gears is that subjectivists think that a good argument makes a blind bit of difference.

 

[esldude]

What really grinds my gears is that subjectivists think that a good argument makes a blind bit of difference.

Paraphrasing, all in good Christmas fun.

What really grinds my gears is a blind bit of difference makes subjectivists think of a good argument.

 

[thedudeabides]

The truth frequently lies at the extreme. Take a look at the Bohr/Einstein debate on quantum entanglement. Only one could be right. It was determined experimentally that Bohr was right. 'Spooky action at a distance'.

The idea that truth lies in the middle springs from an understandable but not entirely admirable desire to evade confrontation. It's frequently a barrier to determining the truth and moving on.

w

The efficacy of Congress comes to mind.