New York Audio Show Sept 26-28 in Brooklyn

[marty]

Here's my advice if you are even remotely thinking of going to the NY Audio Show tomorrow- DON'T.
What a horrible show. Sponsored by some organization called the Chester group, this show was so bad, that the subway noise I experienced after leaving the show to head back to Manhattan sounded pleasant to my ears. I've been attending shows since the Atlanta show in 1978 and I honestly cannot think of a poorer sounding, less interesting show. I did enjoy hearing the new Naim amps (the size of a small refrigerator) on the Focal Utopia Stella but I think its because they played some interesting music from a group I had never heard of called "Fat Freddy's Drop" (They played some cut with bass that I think lowered my testicles about 2 inches- very impressive bottom end recording and reproduction). I also enjoyed finally hearing the Legacy Aeris for the first time. Very solid sound from 40-300Hz but I can't say more about the rest of the range under the show conditions I heard. I know that doesn't sound like much of an accolade, but its a tough zone for any non DSP'd speaker to navigate due to room boundary effects, yet the Aeris seemed very flat, powerful and neutral in that region. I also enjoyed running into Dave Gordon from ARC who I've known for about 25 years, only to tell him that he is really pissing me off because he just doesn't seem to age. Damn it, Dave, gain weight like the rest of us or lose some hair! Seriously, Dave is one of the true gentlemen in the field whose opinions I always respect, whether I own ARC gear or not! I was also surprised that I didn't see a single pair of Wilson speakers at the show. Bottom line, this show was a total waste of time. I paid $30 bucks to listen to utter crap and it just made me angry.

 

[Steve Williams]

But Marty, tell us what you really think

I agree completely about Dave Gordon. The clock stood still with him but not with the rest of us

 

[Nevillekapadia]

Marty,

Fat Freddy's Drop is a New Zealand group. Their music is in a genre called 'Dub' (somehow rhymes with 'testicle drop') which as you probably heard leans into reggae. Their music is enjoyed by quite a few of us in the Oceania region and is available on vinyl too.

Cheers,
Neville

 

[Mobiusman]

I would like to add, since Sanjay Patel of Ciamara in NYC is too much of a gentleman to say so himself, that the Chester Group falsely and without permission listed Ciamara, one of the most respected NYC audio dealers at this time, as being a participant in this show, which it was not and is not.

High end audio had has enough problems with less than scrupulous manufacturers and dealers not to mention new levels for misleading advertising that there is no room for this type of deception.

We need to get more reality and integrity back in the hobby we all love.

 

[dmnc02]

Here's my advice if you are even remotely thinking of going to the NY Audio Show tomorrow- DON'T.
What a horrible show. Sponsored by some organization called the Chester group, this show was so bad, that the subway noise I experienced after leaving the show to head back to Manhattan sounded pleasant to my ears. I've been attending shows since the Atlanta show in 1978 and I honestly cannot think of a poorer sounding, less interesting show. I did enjoy hearing the new Naim amps (the size of a small refrigerator) on the Focal Utopia Stella but I think its because they played some interesting music from a group I had never heard of called "Fat Freddy's Drop" (They played some cut with bass that I think lowered my testicles about 2 inches- very impressive bottom end recording and reproduction). I also enjoyed finally hearing the Legacy Aeris for the first time. Very solid sound from 40-300Hz but I can't say more about the rest of the range under the show conditions I heard. I know that doesn't sound like much of an accolade, but its a tough zone for any non DSP'd speaker to navigate due to room boundary effects, yet the Aeris seemed very flat, powerful and neutral in that region. I also enjoyed running into Dave Gordon from ARC who I've known for about 25 years, only to tell him that he is really pissing me off because he just doesn't seem to age. Damn it, Dave, gain weight like the rest of us or lose some hair! Seriously, Dave is one of the true gentlemen in the field whose opinions I always respect, whether I own ARC gear or not! I was also surprised that I didn't see a single pair of Wilson speakers at the show. Bottom line, this show was a total waste of time. I paid $30 bucks to listen to utter crap and it just made me angry.

It's a small world: although we have never met before, I happen to be the person who was talking with Dave when you apologized for the interruption and told him he looks just like he did 20 years ago.

BTW, I thought there were a few good sounding rooms at the show. For me (and the three friends I was with) the Soundsmith room was outstanding and a complete surprise given the small speakers that were in use, although Peter did have the unfair advantage of unobtainium vinyl.

 

[BobM]

I was there Friday afternoon/night and would have to agree that there wasn't very much that sounded great, let alone just plain good. However I went back on Saturday morning and there was a whole lot of improvement. Some of those audio elves must have been working all night to tune these systems. It was a small show, with several of the major NY audio stores absent, and several of the "usual" show brands absent as well. The crowd was small too, with the halls almost empty at times, but you could easily tell which rooms sounded great because that's where they tended to congregate.

 

[KeithR]

I think Fridays are pretty pointless for "reviews."

Go Sunday and you get the best of all worlds- best sound and low crowds

 

[docvale]

I read Marty's OP AFTER I purchased my ticket and just BEFORE going to the show. So, I was prepared... well, I have to confirm, it was not a great one! In fact, it's been the worst audio show I've ever attended.

The absence of retailers such as Sound by Singer, Innovative, Ciamara and Audio Arts caused the absence of brands such as Wilson, VTL, D'Agostino, Dartzeel, Burmester, Viola, TAD and so on...

First, the complaints.
Next time the chatter in a room will be so loud that the audio experience is affected, I'll say something loud. As much as I understand it's important for the retailers to mingle with candidate buyers, there's the hallways for that. The rooms should be for system listening sessions. Period.
I had to leave from rooms such as Wes Bender Studio or Devialet (where I returned for a second chance, more to follow), but the very worst was reached in the Martin Logan/Krell room (which sounded very good, BTW) where the retailer had the brilliant idea to pause the music with a room full of listeners and to start a conversation with a guy, just ignoring there was people sitting there with the wish to listen to a great system.

Second, the highlights.
The MBL room, as usual, impressed. I've listened to those systems a number of times and they always perform great. Unfortunately, I've never had the chance to listen to vinyls with the MBLs, and the distributor never asks for visitors' own music to be tested. But with the music they display, those are systems I would take in bulk (if I could...).
The Naim Statement has been another great performer. I've always liked Naim products, but this guy really went beyond, driving the Stella Utopias effortlessly. Large and super-expensive, it still looks elegant. Bravo Naim!
VAC amplifications did really good with the large Utopia III. Anyway, I critique: I understand the retailer wanted to make the point those amps can drive everything (and evidently they do) but the volume was a tad too loud, at the edge of fatigue.

The quality.
Many rooms sounded good, let's admit it. Northern Europe was well represented with 2 rooms with Gamut speakers, either driven by Gamut electronics or Hegel. Both system did very well, at a considerable "cheaper" cost than the super-performers I mentioned before.
As I mentioned before, Krell and Martin Logan CLX (plus to enormous subwoofers) were doing great, before the intentional silence mad.
VPI, probably the most represented brand, showcased a weird new table paired with a VPI-branded tubed amp and large Tannoy speakers, with a very nice rendering. The large Sony room displayed their recent streamer DAC, with flagship speaker, Pass preamp and Pass-clone amps, with a very nice sound. I would have been curious to listen to their $2k stereo integrated, whose construction looked impressive through the plexiglass top.
Also, the Backert Labs preamp sounded very nice with a phono prototype and Odissey amps.

The expectations.
I returned to the Devialet room after my initial disappointment. As curious as I am about these products, I had to give it a second chance. So? Well, the system (model 120 in Air play with standmount Totem speakers) sounded very pleasant. But honestly, I would had rather paired them with large and expensive speakers, since the brand mission is "demonstrating" Devialet is not just value for the money, but a reference product.
I left the room with mixed feelings then, since I liked the overall performance but I could not get the feeling of having found a game-changer. Also, the vinyl audition through the Devialet will stay imaginative till a future chance.
As a side note, I have to say that the 120 and 200 look a tad ugly compared to the 250 (and the old D-Premier). The sharper sides made them looking a "cheap" version of a premium product.

The personal experience.
Headphone sets were well represented, and Woo Audio impressed me. I tried Audexe LCD-X, their closed design and the flagship Stax. Ironically, the cheapest combination (LCD-X + Firefly DAC/amp) impressed me most (at least with the music I played) making me desiring that system a lot.
But it lasted shortly: the lack of sharing, plus the ambience limits of the headphone listening are too much a shortcoming to me.
I'd say it'd be the perfect office system

So, what about next year? I won't probably go, or, at least, I'll carefully check the exhibitor list before taking a decision. And, in front of chatter, I'll say something

 

[docvale]

Forgot to mention: I've seen the Basis Inspiration and that's the most gorgeous looking table I've even seen! The front end was ARC Reference Phono and Pre, driving Vandersteen power amps and speakers. Sounding good! But it could had been better

 

[mauidan]

I returned to the Devialet room after my initial disappointment. As curious as I am about these products, I had to give it a second chance. So? Well, the system (model 120 in Air play with standmount Totem speakers) sounded very pleasant. But honestly, I would had rather paired them with large and expensive speakers, since the brand mission is "demonstrating" Devialet is not just value for the money, but a reference product.
I left the room with mixed feelings then, since I liked the overall performance but I could not get the feeling of having found a game-changer. Also, the vinyl audition through the Devialet will stay imaginative till a future chance.
As a side note, I have to say that the 120 and 200 look a tad ugly compared to the 250 (and the old D-Premier). The sharper sides made them looking a "cheap" version of a premium product.

Interesting that Devialet wasn't using a SAM ready speaker.

Here's another take on the show:

http://www.audiophilia.com/wp/?p=14772

 

[DEV]

Interesting that Devialet wasn't using a SAM ready speaker.

Here's another take on the show:

http://www.audiophilia.com/wp/?p=14772

Thanks for posting that link, always nice to see some pic's. Look too be a few systems with VAC electronics and noticed using Ultra 5's, Focal's my favourite color combo.

 

[DEV]

Second, the highlights.
The MBL room, as usual, impressed. I've listened to those systems a number of times and they always perform great. Unfortunately, I've never had the chance to listen to vinyls with the MBLs, and the distributor never asks for visitors' own music to be tested. But with the music they display, those are systems I would take in bulk (if I could...).
The Naim Statement has been another great performer. I've always liked Naim products, but this guy really went beyond, driving the Stella Utopias effortlessly. Large and super-expensive, it still looks elegant. Bravo Naim!
VAC amplifications did really good with the large Utopia III. Anyway, I critique: I understand the retailer wanted to make the point those amps can drive everything (and evidently they do) but the volume was a tad too loud, at the edge of fatigue.

Hi docvale,

thanks for those show thoughts.

Curious what did MBL have set-up - I agree it's a shame - what do you like about the MBL sound compared to say others you have had experience with. I'm very fortune because I get to listen to records all the time with mine, I have mine being driven by the VAC electronics also.

What does your current set-up consist of.

When you heard the Focal's - Stella's with Naim and Utopia III driven by the VAC's I kinda read into what you wrote suggesting you found one sounded strained to the point of fatigue in comparison. Did I read into that correctly, if so what were your thoughts when both systems were playing at a more moderate volume. What differences did you happen to notice, tonality, stage presence etc. was there anything that was really apparent and just stood out. Just curious.

 

[Peter Breuninger]

Steve joined us as a guest reviewer. I edited the audio part of the report today and will drop in some pics tomorrow to spice it up.

 

[docvale]

Hi docvale,

thanks for those show thoughts.

Curious what did MBL have set-up - I agree it's a shame - what do you like about the MBL sound compared to say others you have had experience with. I'm very fortune because I get to listen to records all the time with mine, I have mine being driven by the VAC electronics also.

The MBL setup from yesterday was the very same (more or less) that I have auditioned a number of times in the past: Reference transport + DAC, Reference preamp, Reference monos and the most recent iteration of the 101.
The most striking thing from those sound experiences was the limitless feeling of stage size. It's like putting an entire theater into your room, without needing to make it compact. At these levels, speaking of background noise or resolution becomes a memory from the past.

I know you drive your MBLs with VAC and I'd be curious to listen to such that setup. I've never had the chance to "mix" with MBL...

What does your current set-up consist of.

My two setups details are described here: http://www.whatsbestforum.com/member.php?1140-docvale with the speakers in the Italian system (now just enjoyed by my brother) being now the B&W CM1. Very very far from an MBL or VAC system.
I'm a music lover with passion for gear. If I had to build the very highend system, I would prioritize pleasure over measurement. I don't believe in a a priori superiority of tubes over SS or vice versa: I believe in quality design and quality gear matching.

When you heard the Focal's - Stella's with Naim and Utopia III driven by the VAC's I kinda read into what you wrote suggesting you found one sounded strained to the point of fatigue in comparison. Did I read into that correctly, if so what were your thoughts when both systems were playing at a more moderate volume. What differences did you happen to notice, tonality, stage presence etc. was there anything that was really apparent and just stood out. Just curious.

I couldn't ask to reduce the volume with the VAC+Grand Utopia, so I cannot tell. I'm sure the fatigue I found was not related by system performance, but just to the eccessive loud volume. In fact, I annotated that system among the best in the show.
Maybe, just maybe, I considered the size of the Stella more adeguate to their room rather than the Grand Utopia in theirs.
Anyway, I didn't take any notes, so I reported my impressions just based on the gut feelings I got rather than on an accurate analysis.

 

[Joe Whip]

I did not have the opportunity to listen to the MBL room as they had an equipment issue on Friday late afternoon and the room was closed. I did hear the Focal's in both rooms and was not impressed at all. The Naim room was totally uninvolving and the the VAC room, the sound was just dreadful, shrill and bright at any volume level. I really enjoyed the Sony room with the A1s and the 2 of a kind JFET monoblocks. The Gamut room had excellent sound as well when at reasonable volume levels. Not so much when cranked up. I concur with the talking. I couldn't believe how bad it was. I thought that manufacturers were there to get people interested in their products. You can't do that when people are chatting up a storm in the room.

 

[rblnr]

Very small show, even shockingly so -- just parts of two floors; relatively few manufacturers represented. Maybe a lot of the smaller manufacturers are waiting for RMAF.

Not a lot a good sound either IMO and I'm usually not very critical at shows. I well understand that show conditions aren't great, but on the other hand, getting sound that merely hangs together shouldn't be crazy difficult either as most residential rooms are far from ideal. The two rooms with Acoustic Zen speakers sounded like music -- coherent, open and lively. The presentation of a lot of other far more expensive speakers just didn't hang together IMO.

On another note, I don't understand the regular phenomenon of bringing speakers way too big for the room they're in. Virtually never works.

 

[KeithR]

2 floors? wow, this show is dead in the water. back to Manhattan next year?

it would be nice to consolidate the hifi scene to 3 annual shows- Newport, RMAF, and New York. there would be more rooms, people, and fun.

 

[Atmasphere]

Talking to a number of manufacturers, I find that they concur with me- there are too many shows to support. Doing a show costs a manufacturer a fair chunk of change and unless you are really doing well, the money as well as the time just means that not all the shows can be attended.

IOW, my prediction is that there will be a shakeout. It seems to me that too many people got into this thinking they could make some money (always a bad motivation in high end audio, like many pursuits).

CES has been shrinking steadily for the last several years. They said they had record numbers last January, but the ease that one could make one's way down the strip belied that (and we sure didn't see any significant foot traffic...)- in the old days you simply had to stay away from the strip if you wanted go anywhere at all. Munich is now the preferred show over CES as its easier for foreign nationals to enter and leave Germany than the US, so many go there instead; hence CES seems to be dying on the vine (I think this upcoming show will tell the story there). In the case of the Chester Group, the decision to have the show within just a couple of weeks of the largest audio show in the US (RMAF) seems like a Bad Idea.

 

[Peter Breuninger]

OK It's SHOW TIME! Find out what the reviewers' thought of the show.

 

[Ronm1]

Peter thanks for posting.
Great for me to put faces and voices to gents I've read over the years.