New MSB Cascade DAC

[Ron Resnick]

 

[Jeffy]

Just when I thought it was safe to go outside. It will be interesting to see if the price jumps to 200,000.00. I guess modular does not mean much as the Select dac is left in the dust.

 

[matthias]

According to https://www.monoandstereo.com/msb-technology-cascade-dac/
MSRP 95k$

 

[fbhifi]

The $64,000 question- will the Select remain in the lineup?

 

[matthias]

The $64,000 question- will the Select remain in the lineup?

I think the Cascade is better and cheaper, so I would say no.
IIUC, Sentinel will replace Select.

 

[GSOphile]

The name might imply that this technology will 'cascade' down to lower priced models (in addition to the data flow between modules). These guys are impressive innovators.

 

[bonzo75]

Sounds like a great option for those multimillionaires who cannot afford Wadax or Olympus.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

wonder if it will have the Taiko Olympus interface as a module option? and i don't see any MSB server/Roon/files option. so it's a dac only. this appears to be a Select II replacement, not a 'mid-model'. but maybe others have more insight into that? Sentinel?

it would seem like the Taiko interface would be essential. that's a big group of current MSB owners. maybe the Sentinel level will offer that?

 

[Elliot G.]

Looks like Munich this year will be DAC central with new products coming from just about all the major players. Wadax, CH Precision, MSB, Taiko and maybe dCS.
Mike no offense to Taiko but don't you think that this interface needs to come to market, work and see if people really want it before companies spend time and R&D money to use it? Its putting the digital cart before the horse You are assuming that MSB and others will want it and believe in it as well.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Looks like Munich this year will be DAC central with new products coming from just about all the major players. Wadax, CH Precision, MSB, Taiko and maybe dCS.
Mike no offense to Taiko but don't you think that this interface needs to come to market, work and see if people really want it before companies spend time and R&D money to use it? Its putting the digital cart before the horse You are assuming that MSB and others will want it and believe in it as well.

well....er......it's hard to know the vibe market wide..........but here on WBF i'd say for a dac maker......."ignore Taiko at your own risk" .........unless you have your own sandbox like the Wadax with their own server. if i were a dac maker below the Wadax Reference level and i wanted new buyers, i'd better have a Taiko interface plan customers can see is coming if i want sales. otherwise customers will be weighing getting the Olympus with the internal dac as my competition.

might the Taiko Olympus be less than stellar? it's possible i guess. but what is the alternative for an uber server? there might be a few, but none large on my radar.

i could be completely wrong, of course. but the non Wadax streaming/files king is Taiko......and it's always about the media/source. dac hardware is everywhere and ubiquitous.

this factor will be what non Wadax customers will be weighing. under $50k all in is a different situation. but big-bucks digital will be dealing with this. it will be interesting what dCS does with their new ultra effort coming later this year.

the server interface is now the big deal, and the big problem. it's not going away. along with the server and dac power supply significance.

 

[Lee]

I think the Cascade is better and cheaper, so I would say no.
IIUC, Sentinel will replace Select.

Why would the Select be better? That doesn’t make sense from a business standpoint.

 

[Lee]

Looks like Munich this year will be DAC central with new products coming from just about all the major players. Wadax, CH Precision, MSB, Taiko and maybe dCS.
Mike no offense to Taiko but don't you think that this interface needs to come to market, work and see if people really want it before companies spend time and R&D money to use it? Its putting the digital cart before the horse You are assuming that MSB and others will want it and believe in it as well.

I was thinking the same thing.

 

[sbnx]

the server interface is now the big deal, and the big problem. it's not going away. along with the server and dac power supply significance.

Agree. Everyone has been working around USB for over a decade. It is time for a real interface. I think the Wadax optical is state of the art. I don't see what is stopping others from adopting an optical interface between server and DAC.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Agree. Everyone has been working around USB for over a decade. It is time for a real interface. I think the Wadax optical is state of the art. I don't see what is stopping others from adopting an optical interface between server and DAC.

here is the big problem.

who makes both top flight dacs.....and......drum roll......a very top flight server?

only one manufacturer.......Wadax. yes, i know there a couple small players who also have servers, but no one at the top level.

so how can a dac maker figure it out? they are only experts on one side of it. so we have Taiko going it alone. and they have to get up to speed on the dac side.

i can tell you that the synergy with the Wadax is quite special....and not any accident.

 

[mxk116]

While I don't own an MSB DAC (or any other MSB products) I do appreciate their trade in program.

MSB Trade in Trade Up Program (May 2024)

 

[Elliot G.]

well....er......it's hard to know the vibe market wide..........but here on WBF i'd say for a dac maker......."ignore Taiko at your own risk" .........unless you have your own sandbox like the Wadax with their own server. if i were a dac maker below the Wadax Reference level and i wanted new buyers, i'd better have a Taiko interface plan customers can see is coming if i want sales. otherwise customers will be weighing getting the Olympus with the internal dac as my competition.

might the Taiko Olympus be less than stellar? it's possible i guess. but what is the alternative for an uber server? there might be a few, but none large on my radar.

i could be completely wrong, of course. but the non Wadax streaming/files king is Taiko......and it's always about the media/source. dac hardware is everywhere and ubiquitous.

this factor will be what non Wadax customers will be weighing. under $50k all in is a different situation. but big-bucks digital will be dealing with this. it will be interesting what dCS does with their new ultra effort coming later this year.

the server interface is now the big deal, and the big problem. it's not going away. along with the server and dac power supply significance.

i dont think anyone is ignoring anyone however the leap that this technology is better than whats out there and compatible with other companies products has yet to be shown. One would have to ask MSB, dCS, CH , etc. whether this is anything that they want to address. Historically this has not ever happened often if at all. So this Taiko product would need to fundamentally change the industry , that only time will tell.

 

[fbhifi]

I think the Cascade is better and cheaper, so I would say no.
IIUC, Sentinel will replace Select.

So, the Cascade, which clearly seems to be an evolution of the Select platform, will beat the performance of the Select- at a lower price point. The Sentinel will become the new flagship at a higher price than the Select and beat the performance of the Sentinel. Makes sense, except that the MSB sales pitch about modular upgrade ability for the Select is, for all intents and purposes, false. Now Select owners get an UP TO 50% trade-in program when dishing out the serious coin for the Sentinel- better than a poke in the eye with a sharp stick but only a little. Bait and Switch, IMO.

I think Wadax has opened the door for new Uber DAC offerings in the $150K+ range, and likely many manufacturers will rush to bring models at this elevated price point to market. Me thinks this will likely present a supply and demand imbalance in Uber DAC land.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

i dont think anyone is ignoring anyone however the leap that this technology is better than whats out there and compatible with other companies products has yet to be shown. One would have to ask MSB, dCS, CH , etc. whether this is anything that they want to address. Historically this has not ever happened often if at all. So this Taiko product would need to fundamentally change the industry , that only time will tell.

uber dac-only makers will at least need to offer a back channel wink-wink to customers about a future Taiko interface option. it's a box that will need a check mark to proceed. we can't yet know how big a deal it might be, or not be.

 

[wil]

well....er......it's hard to know the vibe market wide..........but here on WBF i'd say for a dac maker......."ignore Taiko at your own risk" .........unless you have your own sandbox like the Wadax with their own server. if i were a dac maker below the Wadax Reference level and i wanted new buyers, i'd better have a Taiko interface plan customers can see is coming if i want sales. otherwise customers will be weighing getting the Olympus with the internal dac as my competition.

might the Taiko Olympus be less than stellar? it's possible i guess. but what is the alternative for an uber server? there might be a few, but none large on my radar.

i could be completely wrong, of course. but the non Wadax streaming/files king is Taiko......and it's always about the media/source. dac hardware is everywhere and ubiquitous.

this factor will be what non Wadax customers will be weighing. under $50k all in is a different situation. but big-bucks digital will be dealing with this. it will be interesting what dCS does with their new ultra effort coming later this year.

the server interface is now the big deal, and the big problem. it's not going away. along with the server and dac power supply significance.

Perhaps the server and server to dac interface is more important to sound quality than the contribution of the dac itself.

From what I understand the dac supplied with the Olympus server is nothing special, but when used with the Olympus server and the Xdmi interface the results are significantly better than using usb to a sota dac. And using Xdmi natively with a sota dac will be that much better.

Like Wadax, Taiko seems to be largely focused on power supply (battery) and server to dac interface.

 

[fbhifi]

uber dac-only makers will at least need to offer a back channel wink-wink to customers about a future Taiko interface option. it's a box that will need a check mark to proceed. we can't yet know how big a deal it might be, or not be.

We may get an idea of how big a deal it might be at Munich. I think that I heard that the Taiko Olympus will be paired with the Lanpizator Horizon via the XDMI interface in at least one room. Perhaps Emile and Co. will have the opportunity to do a little XDMI schmoozing with some of the high line DAC manufacturers in Munchen.