New generaton of buyers ....nothing but the price
- Thread starter Elliot G.
- Start date
I hear you on the used CD purchasing. My rate is a lot lower than yours, but I still hit 1-2 new discs a week, either from thrift stores, Amazon, or half.com.
The difficult part is finding enough time to listen to all of it.
Same here...just picked up 2nd hand copies of: MFSL Pink Floyd Meddle, a few Fink albums (former DJ who did house albums but now really interesting acoustic guitar band...excellent including an acoustic guitar album with the Royal Concertegebouw Orchestra), Whitlock Organ, Beethoven Symphonies - Suitner, etc FUN!!!
I literally just discovered this guy...way cool!! I got 3 albums 2nd hand (Fink with Concertegebouw, Wheel Turning (great live album)... and Fresh Produce which seems like it is from his DJ house days...) and to boot, its fun that I am guessing each of these 3 albums has been well recorded/well mastered...
"Their will always be a % of the public who wants the best just tell them your better than BOSE cooler than BEATS less break downs than APPLE or p**s and moan to the poor house now think about that over night before you tear me apart in your next post."
"The mags have been fair in lower priced reviews high end reviews , new ideas , No one old as ever under stood the young in time to do them any good but now you have the net read the blogs where the young post maybe you will learn and read don't type it is their world your just listening in."
"IMO if I was right only 50% of the time I would never leave the Race Track"[/QUOTE]
I think Elliot has to realize this is not the Ferrari buying crowd. Guys that buy Ferrari's order them from the dealer with a 10k non-refundable deposit and pay full retail for it. Most audio people are not like that. They are shopping for the best deal.
I recently had an experience with an on-line dealer that I felt compelled to pass along. I purchased as set of used MIT MA-X single ended interconnects from a company called Audio Nerd based in Rocklin, CA. They are an authorized MIT dealer. These cables replaced an inferior pair of balanced MIT Magnum MAs in my system, but unfortunately, when I installed them, a hum appeared in my system that I didn't have previously. Steve, the owner of Audio Nerd, agreed to take the cables back immediately, and send them to MIT for examination. MIT essentially rebuilt the cables to assure their performance, and Steve sent them back promptly at no charge to me. Sadly, the problem persisted. To make a long story short, it appears that by substituting a single ended cable for a balanced cable in my particular application, I inadvertently created some sort of ground loop. The use of cheater plugs on the AC power cords solved the problem, but that is an uncomfortable long term solution. I therefore opted to get a new pair of balanced MA-X cables from Audio Nerd at a competitive price, and they gave me back full credit for the single ended cable I bought (which was now recently refurbished at MIT). All during the time the issue was being resolved, Steve (the audio nerd) kept me updated with spontaneous emails all along the way letting me know what was going on. In my view, he couldn't have done more, or been more helpful in helping me work out a satisfactory solution to a problem that was in no way his doing, but rather, mine. My point is very simple. Steve provided simply stellar service that I'm not sure most brick and mortar stores would have delivered. Although I believe the best brick and mortar hi end stores deserve our support, I suggest that any good authorized dealer deserves your business, whether it be brick and mortar, or an internet provider. In this case, Audio Nerd knocked it out of the park for me, and you can bet I will return the favor in giving them first crack at future business, if possible. Great job, Steve.
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I wholeheartedly agree with you Marty - I have always supported the *good* authorized dealer model.
Great story...I will remember this post and likely refer to it at some point. Thanks for posting...always good to know about great audio dealers.
Marty, this is a good story, although it is unlikely many online retailers would provide such service, which opens the door for local dealers to do this and gain customers for the long haul. Not that I'm saying they do -- some won't give you the time of day and thus are fading fast -- but some go above and beyond the way Steve did for you. In any event I agree he deserves a pat on the back.
Yes, I agree it is unusual that ANY retailer is this good. Particularly in audio, I think many of us have been leery of the 'hard sell' with no after service. In my own case, I have done 90% of my audio with 3 dealers...in nearly 20 years.
I also have excellent experience with "the Nerd". I got both my MIT cables from him. He used to work for MIT.
I think Elliot has to realize this is not the Ferrari buying crowd. Guys that buy Ferrari's order them from the dealer with a 10k non-refundable deposit and pay full retail for it. Most audio people are not like that. They are shopping for the best deal.[/QUOTE]
The very existence of this thread is proof of the evolution of this hobby. And though I strongly disagree with ElliotG when it comes to things like the value of a Magnum Opus and whether or not those cables are actually worth that much, I have to agree with him in this thread. Then again, I see a strong correlation between the two threads.
For the record, like ElliotG., I also managed a high end store for awhile and was contracted to help start a new store in a major market. So I'm well aware of all things related to the sales side of this business. And I think major part of the problem ElliotG is experiencing comes from a major loss that the manufacturing/sales side of this hobby has experienced of late. He is correct in acknowledging the problem of the Internet and it's effect on finding "deals". But there is another aspect to the Internet that is causing a problem for the industry, and that is simply the control of information. Manufacturers and dealers were able to charge significant margins when they controlled the information on margins and supposed "technology". These days, reasonable minded people are able to sift through information on their own and make their own judgments concerning true value. And the end result is made perfectly clear within in the first four posts in this thread!
Here we have Rockitman boldly proclaiming that he DEMANDS such and such discounts. And when I see statements like that I find myself seriously conflicted. The scientifically minded part of me feels like cheering him and telling him that he is absolutely right and SHOULD expect a discount. (Especially on such bloated crap ((personal opinion!!!)) as Transparent.) But there is the former experience of being a salesman in this hobby that makes my gut want to grab Rockitman by the collar and throw is arse out the front door.
Which leads me to another problem in this industry. There is NO consistency. Which I blame on the industry! But it leads people like Rockitman to assume, because many companies have ridiculously overblown pricing, that ALL of them do.
And this I learned from my short time contracted on the manufacturing side of this hobby. There are now enough "Rockitmans" out there that it is near impossible to not play the pricing game. It is near impossible for a company to actually offer products based on true reasonable margins because next to nobody actually believes them!
Which brings me full circle and back to fully agreeing with ElliotG. And I'll go one step further than he did when it comes to lamenting the "deal" seekers. And before I do, let me say that I am fully aware that not ALL audiophiles are like what I am about to convey. But enough are!
And that has to do with outright stealing from a dealer. Stealing from him in the form of time and resources. There were many reasons why I willingly chose to abandon the sales side of this industry. But a major one was the increasing problem of douchebag customers. Customers who I would spend upwards of 6 months dealing with, on every weekend, and even well past normal business hours. Customers who I would do small favors for, things that would normally be charged a service fee, for free. All in the interest of developing a long term relationship. Months spent working to the point of sweating (literally, moving quarter ton speakers multiple times in and out of position.) only to have the guy disappear for several months. Disappear, that is, until he suddenly needed service on the speakers that he auditioned for months at my store but ended up buying on huge discount somewhere else. And what did I get out of it? nothing more than the satisfaction of telling him to go **** himself when he thought he was doing me a favor by bringing his service work to me.
If this type of "customer" were to simply decided on a DIFFERENT product, then I obviously have no room to complain. It's his money and his decision on what to live with. And, to a certain degree, it's hard not to be fully tempted by that "deal" one finds somewhere else. But there is a line of integrity here and I found that line to be increasingly clouded by more and more consumers.
So, basically, my point is that the whole dang industry is screwed. You have a significant portion of the products that are obviously overpriced to start with. And obliviously so because everyone KNOWS to start demanding big discounts. And yet you have companies who make an honest effort at reasonable pricing but are overtly overlooked because they are less expensive than some other flashy brand, or are passed by because they can't afford to offer the same discount that people have come to expect. You have some consumers defiantly express loyalty to the "deal". And to some extent this is understandable. But it is also this defiance that is helping to put the brick and mortars out of business.
I know this is a sad and cynical outlook. But I've had enough. I'm lucky in that I have the scientific background to design and/or modify equipment that is focused on the priorities I seek. I sorry to say, I don't know what the answer is for the rest of ya!
For the record, like ElliotG., I also managed a high end store for awhile and was contracted to help start a new store in a major market. So I'm well aware of all things related to the sales side of this business. And I think major part of the problem ElliotG is experiencing comes from a major loss that the manufacturing/sales side of this hobby has experienced of late. He is correct in acknowledging the problem of the Internet and it's effect on finding "deals". But there is another aspect to the Internet that is causing a problem for the industry, and that is simply the control of information. Manufacturers and dealers were able to charge significant margins when they controlled the information on margins and supposed "technology". These days, reasonable minded people are able to sift through information on their own and make their own judgments concerning true value. And the end result is made perfectly clear within in the first four posts in this thread!
Here we have Rockitman boldly proclaiming that he DEMANDS such and such discounts. And when I see statements like that I find myself seriously conflicted. The scientifically minded part of me feels like cheering him and telling him that he is absolutely right and SHOULD expect a discount. (Especially on such bloated crap ((personal opinion!!!)) as Transparent.) But there is the former experience of being a salesman in this hobby that makes my gut want to grab Rockitman by the collar and throw is arse out the front door.
Which leads me to another problem in this industry. There is NO consistency. Which I blame on the industry! But it leads people like Rockitman to assume, because many companies have ridiculously overblown pricing, that ALL of them do.
And this I learned from my short time contracted on the manufacturing side of this hobby. There are now enough "Rockitmans" out there that it is near impossible to not play the pricing game. It is near impossible for a company to actually offer products based on true reasonable margins because next to nobody actually believes them!
Which brings me full circle and back to fully agreeing with ElliotG. And I'll go one step further than he did when it comes to lamenting the "deal" seekers. And before I do, let me say that I am fully aware that not ALL audiophiles are like what I am about to convey. But enough are!
And that has to do with outright stealing from a dealer. Stealing from him in the form of time and resources. There were many reasons why I willingly chose to abandon the sales side of this industry. But a major one was the increasing problem of douchebag customers. Customers who I would spend upwards of 6 months dealing with, on every weekend, and even well past normal business hours. Customers who I would do small favors for, things that would normally be charged a service fee, for free. All in the interest of developing a long term relationship. Months spent working to the point of sweating (literally, moving quarter ton speakers multiple times in and out of position.) only to have the guy disappear for several months. Disappear, that is, until he suddenly needed service on the speakers that he auditioned for months at my store but ended up buying on huge discount somewhere else. And what did I get out of it? nothing more than the satisfaction of telling him to go **** himself when he thought he was doing me a favor by bringing his service work to me.
If this type of "customer" were to simply decided on a DIFFERENT product, then I obviously have no room to complain. It's his money and his decision on what to live with. And, to a certain degree, it's hard not to be fully tempted by that "deal" one finds somewhere else. But there is a line of integrity here and I found that line to be increasingly clouded by more and more consumers.
So, basically, my point is that the whole dang industry is screwed. You have a significant portion of the products that are obviously overpriced to start with. And obliviously so because everyone KNOWS to start demanding big discounts. And yet you have companies who make an honest effort at reasonable pricing but are overtly overlooked because they are less expensive than some other flashy brand, or are passed by because they can't afford to offer the same discount that people have come to expect. You have some consumers defiantly express loyalty to the "deal". And to some extent this is understandable. But it is also this defiance that is helping to put the brick and mortars out of business.
I know this is a sad and cynical outlook. But I've had enough. I'm lucky in that I have the scientific background to design and/or modify equipment that is focused on the priorities I seek. I sorry to say, I don't know what the answer is for the rest of ya!
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