New generaton of buyers ....nothing but the price

[Al M.]

I’m actually a fan of pass labs x series. They are very good solid state, without pretending to be anything else. (Of course, you are paying a premium for the pass brand.) I have heard the XS models only at shows, so I don't have an opinion on the m. However, I am not a fan of the XA amps. Because I own tube amps, to my ears XA don't fool me into thinking I am listening to tubes and instead sound like very badly colored solid state, an egregious offence to my senses. It’s kind of like you are dating a girl who dies her hair blond. But instead of getting her hair done once a month, she has missed her hair colorist appointment for 3 months. Nobody is fooled by those long black roots.

I strongly disagree with your remarks. I have tube gear myself (see my signature), and just like my amps the Pass XA 160.5 amps, as I heard them in Peter A.'s system, sound neither like tube amps nor like typical solid state with its slightly electronic sounding colorations. I cannot see how the Pass amps are badly colored as I hear a similar tonal balance between my amps and Peter's, and my amps have a very similar balance as the Spectral DMA-260 that have a reputation to be very neutral and that I have heard in my system, thus in direct comparison to my amps.

Of course, one caveat: I haven't heard the Pass amps in comparison with other amps in Peter's own system, which would allow me to circumvent the extrapolations made above. Yet if the amps were colored, then they would do a mighty good trick in neutralizing other putative colorations in Peter's system (unlikely; the more straightforward assumption is that all the components in his system are pretty neutral). Also, if the amps were colored, they hardly could reproduce human voices with the stunning, jaw-dropping believability that I hear in Peter's system (from the very best recordings/pressings, that is).

As my tube amps, the Pass amps excel in micro-dynamics -- very impressive for solid state amps.

 

[microstrip]

(...) When I hear any Magico and the majority of Wilsons, I hear audiophile words (Exceptions include wilson with D’agostino amps, and a handful of others- I would love to hear the Alexia or Alexandria driven by powerful CAT monoblocks). With these 2 blockbuster brands, I usually can’t get into the music. I may as well not partake in the hobby. My problem with these and other “larger” audiophile companies is that they hire too many engineers and design gear to check off the audiophile vocabulary rather than to sound like real music. To the engineer, the same parts may measure the same, but it takes someone with a high level of musical intelligence, in addition to very high intelligence in math and science, to make that assembly of parts sound like music.


Look, we all have different goals in this hobby. And since this is a discussion forum of people with diverse backgrounds and experiences, I want to understand why you think:
- Magico is special
- How's Magico different than YG, another metal speaker that can produce the same audiophile vocabulary, and that can actually sound "clean and accurate" with some amps, yet musical with others. How's Magico actually better than others, other than in marketing itself?
- How’s Wilson different (and/ or better) than Magico, based on your evaluation criteria - that goes beyond tonal balance?

Caeser,

Curiously you seem to know a lot of psychology but seem to be a victim of your own biases and your posts seem to be mostly a self justification of your old prejudices. I try to be an open minded person, and after reading a lot about the stereo reproduction fundamentals I became better prepared to accept that we can not debate pieces of equipment, we have to debate systems and the pieces inside them, when they are showing their best. You seem to stick to the Recommended List dogma, something I can not accept.

Although I have my favorites, I have often posted that if could choose the ancillaries I could happily live an happy audiophile life with almost all the speakers we are addressing. In the many systems I have listened the XLF and the TheSonusfaber were able to recreate the illusion of my live references much better than any other by a large factor - I have referred elsewhere in due time why I found so.

I know that my appreciation of the several brands is strongly affected by my music preferences - do not expect me to valuate the extraordinary performance of the Q7 with some loud rock that drives me out of the room immediately. But I understand that many people love that type of music and want to recreate the illusion and emotion of that great arena rock concert - they will have an opinion different from mine.

Please remember that my opinions try to refer to the components showing their best - excepting for a few really flawed designs, poor sounding is usually due to poor system, poor setup, poor speaker positioning or room mismatch.

I have never listened or cared about YG. Sorry. And although I loved the CAT sound IMHO buying a CAT in western Europe would not be adventurous, but lunacy.

 

[caesar]

Caeser,

Curiously you seem to know a lot of psychology but seem to be a victim of your own biases and your posts seem to be mostly a self justification of your old prejudices. I try to be an open minded person, and after reading a lot about the stereo reproduction fundamentals I became better prepared to accept that we can not debate pieces of equipment, we have to debate systems and the pieces inside them, when they are showing their best. You seem to stick to the Recommended List dogma, something I can not accept.

Although I have my favorites, I have often posted that if could choose the ancillaries I could happily live an happy audiophile life with almost all the speakers we are addressing. In the many systems I have listened the XLF and the TheSonusfaber were able to recreate the illusion of my live references much better than any other by a large factor - I have referred elsewhere in due time why I found so.

I know that my appreciation of the several brands is strongly affected by my music preferences - do not expect me to valuate the extraordinary performance of the Q7 with some loud rock that drives me out of the room immediately. But I understand that many people love that type of music and want to recreate the illusion and emotion of that great arena rock concert - they will have an opinion different from mine.

Please remember that my opinions try to refer to the components showing their best - excepting for a few really flawed designs, poor sounding is usually due to poor system, poor setup, poor speaker positioning or room mismatch.

I have never listened or cared about YG. Sorry. And although I loved the CAT sound IMHO buying a CAT in western Europe would not be adventurous, but lunacy.

Microstrip,

As I mentioned before above, we all see things through our own lens of knowledge, experience, beliefs, attitudes, and incentives (let's not forget the frequently mis-aligned incentives of the reviewers, frequently mis-aligned both from the fans they write for and mis-aligned from the magazine owners that they work for). It holds for all of us and there is no denying this. It's human nature.

But I am particularly interested in your quote above: "... you reduce the audiophile preferences and choices to tonal balance. You are not alone..." If you could please expand on this, I would appreciate it.

 

[caesar]

I'm with microstrip here, you're just spewing your knowledge of psychology as applied to other things, and pretending it applies to high-end audio, a much more subtle hobby than watching tennis.

The paragraph above proves this. You can wish all you want, but a KEF will never be a Magico, no matter what you pair it with.


alexandre

Alexandre, I'm also spewing a lot of economics also, which I think is much sexier and also much more revelatory than psychology alone.

Anyways, I always thought you were a Magico person, but now I see YG in your signature. Can you please present a fair and unbiased assessment of the similarities and differences of the designs and sound signatures of these brands?

 

[asiufy]

caesar,

Oh, I like Magico. I also like many other brands I don't sell, and the ones I do sell too, of course

I believe both brands are similar, and pursuing the same path, only Magico is a little ahead in the game, with a more comprehensive and extensive product line, and, most likely, a better, more optimized production process. YG speakers are also notoriously hard to drive, and that'll limit amplification options.
I have a Q3, a fantastic speaker, and I didn't knew anything that could better it at that price. Until I heard the YG Hailey. Of course, IMHO, YMMV, etc etc.
Perhaps you could listen to the Haileys. If anything, it might just change your opinion of "aluminum = bad", as the YGs use even more aluminum than Magico


alexandre

 

[Geardaddy]

I find it really interesting that so many buyers today are so price oriented that they dont really seem to care what the products sound like. I always wanted to purchase the item/items that produced magic rather than WOW i bought it used for 30 cents on the dollar.
This is a real phenomenon and I see and hear it all the time. I dont want product X because I have to buy it retail but I cant get something "similar" used on Audiogon or Ebay.
Its all good enough and the fact that everything gets a great review ( a whole other subject since there seems to be as many reviewers as products these day) has made Audio just a commodity!!!!!
SAD SAD SAD but true.
Most of the major brands of the past are mostly irrelevant or gone and the process of Audio companies combining is in full swing. The future seems to be a bunch of traveling shows, like the arts and crafts things we have here in Florida, and websites where the opinions flow like beer in the bleachers on a Saturday afternoon in July. All the readers making comments on what they have not heard or heard through a audio drive buy.
I see so many Audiophiles have these combination style systems that should be called " I got a deal Systems"
One from here , one from there, but I got a great deal.
I guess the fast food Audio generation has finally taken control.
Beats and Bose has won due to the lack of the Audio Industry not having the balls to tell the truth, to inform and educate the consumers and specifiers.
The golden era of quality audio may be wasted on the old and I fear the young will look at music in the future as little more than what they get from the local drive in window.

Very sad and very true. Audiogon is filled with Kmart shoppers as one friend calls them. And yes, JackD201, it IT IS more expensive in the long run due to time wasted cycling through equipment in audio purgatory....