NAT Audio Magma New SE

[Ron Resnick]

All Points Bulletin:

Who owns, or has owned, the NAT Audio Magma New SE?

 

[spiritofmusic]

Ron, it's not happening on this forum. With a bit of help from Lady Luck ie the lottery, I would help answer you by running the Magmas New w the soon to be released Zu Dominance 6.

I fear otherwise Magmas are not the flavour for Wbf.

I believe when I visited The General, the Magmas were up against the Mayer 46 tubes. I actually felt they held up well, but the consensus from the other listeners in the room was the Mayers clearly won.

 

[cjfrbw]

Do they use those to sterilize gerbils in science labs?

In this vid, a YouTube-er called OCD Hi Fi Guy compares units with these tubes to gallium nitride class D amps.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Carl, there are a few scary things in audio. That 36" long Thales tonearm (good luck demonstrating that w the eye candy standing nearby to send it spinning like a windmill). And this humongous GM100 transmitting tube, continuous consumption well over 1000 Watts to produce it's 170W output, all Class A. Needing a windshield in case it explodes sending shards flying.

Still, Magmas powering 12 drivers on the new top Zus...I'd risk it.

 

[cjfrbw]

The 572b tubes in my Wavac over many years of use fade gracefully and never had any indication that either explosion or fragmentation were problems. Thorium in the cathodes wears out, they lose power gradually, and then they are glorified light bulbs.

The more likely hazards are the extreme voltages and heat. Just don't mess with them when they are on. I have gotten the discharge from the anode a couple of times tinkering. Oh WOW! Maybe that explains something.

However, this could describe any high power tube amp.

 

[spiritofmusic]

I'm doing well w the quad 211 tubes in my Nat SE2SEs. 6 years at 3-6 hrs a day, and no apparent deterioration. But the Magmas really appeal.

 

[cjfrbw]

There is the rumor that he older NOS transmitting tubes were much more heavily doped with thorium than the newer ones, due to cost cutting in the newer versions. Svetlana 572b lasted about 1200 hours or so before fading. However, the older Cetron transmitting tubes are reputed to be 'everlasting' tubes, and command higher prices. Higher prices is relative, though, because I have obtained many samples of the Cetrons for about $60 a tube delivered, which is chump-changey by audiophile standards. True NOS Cetron 572b in original boxes still go for about $200 for the pricier offerings.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Anyhow, The General needs to chip in. He's heard the Magmas at length.

 

[cjfrbw]

In spite of these amps being around for a while in various installations, there is a surprising lack of comprehensive reviewing. There are mostly just drive by commentaries. Everybody seems to like them, but few seem to want to make a commitment to them as audiophile icons.

 

[Ron Resnick]

A.J. Conti had the original NAT Audio Magma and then he got the Magma New. He told me on the telephone either that the Magma New was the best amplifier he ever had or the best tube amplifier he ever had (I cannot remember which).

He also told me he had no reliability problems with either pair of amps.

(Reliability is a concern to me because the GM100 tube looks like it could cause a second Chernobyl.)

 

[Ron Resnick]

Among several high power RF tubes used in audio amplifiers I read somewhere that the GM100 was designed originally to amplify audio frequencies.

Does anyone know if this is true?

 

[Ron Resnick]

In spite of these amps being around for a while in various installations, there is a surprising lack of comprehensive reviewing. There are mostly just drive by commentaries. Everybody seems to like them, but few seem to want to make a commitment to them as audiophile icons.

I think the General has auditioned almost every tube amp ever made.

 

[bonzo75]

I put some stuff on the Nat here including demos of both pre and power.

https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/coincident-statement-linestage.25900/#post-625397

That was more directed on the pre, in addition I will add I don't think they have sufficient highs for me, slow transients, and for that power requirement there are much superior solid states. For much lower power, there are much superior SETs.

The General had them as well and he has also tried the kronzilla integrated, thoress 845 and the CAT apart from his usual Mayer's. He prefers all to the NAT

 

[Ron Resnick]

The General also has a lot of 833 tube amp experience.

 

[cjfrbw]

I have been having a picnic with the flea powered amps on my unexpected highly efficient midrange BG 75 ribbons. They sound amazing, with the lowest power @1.3 watts performing excellent. These ribbons seem to bring out the best in every amp I have tried with them, both tube and SS. I never thought I would have ribbons and flea powered SET in my own system across the broad midrange.

However, the transmitting tube Wavac still has a sheer vitality factor that seems to be unique to the genre. That is hard to describe with the usual audiophile lingo. That quality also doesn’t seem to convey with the various push pull tube amps I have heard. If the Magma has that quality, then it would definitely be to my tastes.

 

[Ron Resnick]

I have been having a picnic with the flea powered amps on my unexpected highly efficient midrange BG 75 ribbons. They sound amazing, with the lowest power @1.3 watts performing excellent. These ribbons seem to bring out the best in every amp I have tried with them, both tube and SS. I never thought I would have ribbons and flea powered SET in my own system across the broad midrange.

However, the transmitting tube Wavac still has a sheer vitality factor that seems to be unique to the genre. That is hard to describe with the usual audiophile lingo. That quality also doesn’t seem to convey with the various push pull tube amps I have heard. If the Magma has that quality, then it would definitely be to my tastes.

Michael Fremer wrote that he loved the sound of the Wavac 833 -- but he didn't buy it.

I still don't understand how you are driving that BG75 with so little power, when in the Gryphon Pendragon application going through only a simple high-pass cross-over at 200Hz the resulting sensitivity is only 89dB. Maybe our technical people can opine on whether this sensitivity spec does, in fact, make sense -- due to the cross-over.

If I thought 50w would work I would think about Kagura 211, Viva Aurora and Absolare SET.

 

[the sound of Tao]

Do they use those to sterilize gerbils in science labs?

In this vid, a YouTube-er called OCD Hi Fi Guy compares units with these tubes to gallium nitride class D amps.

The video kinda reminds me of a scene from the movie Being John Malkovich... not sure it’s a good listening room but it could be a disturbing one for sure.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Being John Malkovich encapsulates the whole hobby.

Ra has often said she'll pay any money to NEVER be in any of our heads.

 

[cjfrbw]

Michael Fremer wrote that he loved the sound of the Wavac 833 -- but he didn't buy it.

I still don't understand how you are driving that BG75 with so little power, when in the Gryphon Pendragon application going through only a simple high-pass cross-over at 200Hz the resulting sensitivity is only 89dB. Maybe our technical people can opine on whether this sensitivity spec does, in fact, make sense -- due to the cross-over.

If I thought 50w would work I would think about Kagura 211, Viva Aurora and Absolare SET.

I don't either. I mined the internet trying to get info, and even looking up the large, expensive speakers that were made by BG in the past using improved ribbons from Wisdom Audio revealed very little. Nothing indicates any sensitivity exceeding the high 80's, just one citation saying that there was an intent to produce a model with higher output without the beaming problem. The guy that bought them purchased them on a factory clearance and never set them up.

My desire was to get an extra 5db of dynamic range for the intermodulation heavies that can occur on vinyl playback. I think I got 15 db along with the high sensitivity. Again, I am sitting about 30-40 or so degrees off axis about 9 feet away from each ribbon.

I'm not complaining, it's just that I am not certain exactly what I have in hand, so it is a mystery that does not seem to have any resolution other than that they are what they are.. The fascia resembles the ones they use in the Pendragon. Maybe Gryphon found a lower sensitivity model to be better sounding and more in line with their amplifiers and build ergonomics.

All I can state is that this pair I have in hand seem to have sensitivity at least 94-95db or so and they work great with very minimalist low power SET amps (182b, 45, 2A3, 300b) (and a tiny, single ended pentode amplifier that claims 3.5 watts) at the crossover frequency range 300Hz to 7khz. 2A3 seems to provide ample overhead.

However, I would be afraid to put anything higher than 50 watts on them. They seem like they are big power fuses and overloading them could make them go kaputsky. Even the nominal 50w Wavac is a bit iffy psychologically for high power (though it sounds phenomenal).

 

[Ron Resnick]

. . .

But the Magmas really appeal.

As our resident NAT Audio aficionado I think the task and the honor of ordering Magma New SEs falls squarely upon your shoulders.