I may just have to make it a point to attend Munich show next year !
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We always recommend going to shows. It's all about the people! We'd love to see you there!
Sweet! I understand they pair very well together. It sure pairs well with my Sonore Rendu. Magic!
Hey all. Long time / first time.
MMT owner here as well. Currently using the Holo Red, which I found surprisingly good for the money, previously used Antipodes CX / EX. I dislike USB as a format but still come back to preferring that input on the MMT with a good cable (I have just enough high res content to make the PCM-only HDMI input annoying). I have yet to get the MMT ethernet input sound as good with any ethernet cable / Regens / etc.
I am of course considering a MU1. But I heard the MU2 in Munich and it was fabulous. Getting rid of the streamer / DAC interface is IMO the most important improvement to be made (see annoyances above; and why am I thinking about buying a $2500 USB cable??). But if I'm replacing everything it makes sense to look at other options.
My ask: has anyone heard / compared a top-performing MMT (ie with a MU1, K50, or other top-flight transport) versus Rossini, Rossini APEX, with/without clock? How about the the MSB stuff?
My biases / system: A lot of baroque / choral, a lot of classical orchestral / chamber / piano, a lot of Kpop and electronica. At present I'm listening to a hp setup (Red > MMT > Cayin C9 > DCA Stealths) while waiting for a larger apartment to house my ATC SCM110s (3-way active analog monitor found in a lot of mastering studios), JL Audio sub, Puritan and Shunyata power. With the MMT my preference is to use a preamp (have used PSA BHK, Holo Serene and various Audio Research) but that decision is yet to be made (and of course would not use a preamp with the MU2, presumably).
MMT owner here as well. Currently using the Holo Red, which I found surprisingly good for the money, previously used Antipodes CX / EX. I dislike USB as a format but still come back to preferring that input on the MMT with a good cable (I have just enough high res content to make the PCM-only HDMI input annoying). I have yet to get the MMT ethernet input sound as good with any ethernet cable / Regens / etc.
I am of course considering a MU1. But I heard the MU2 in Munich and it was fabulous. Getting rid of the streamer / DAC interface is IMO the most important improvement to be made (see annoyances above; and why am I thinking about buying a $2500 USB cable??). But if I'm replacing everything it makes sense to look at other options.
My ask: has anyone heard / compared a top-performing MMT (ie with a MU1, K50, or other top-flight transport) versus Rossini, Rossini APEX, with/without clock? How about the the MSB stuff?
My biases / system: A lot of baroque / choral, a lot of classical orchestral / chamber / piano, a lot of Kpop and electronica. At present I'm listening to a hp setup (Red > MMT > Cayin C9 > DCA Stealths) while waiting for a larger apartment to house my ATC SCM110s (3-way active analog monitor found in a lot of mastering studios), JL Audio sub, Puritan and Shunyata power. With the MMT my preference is to use a preamp (have used PSA BHK, Holo Serene and various Audio Research) but that decision is yet to be made (and of course would not use a preamp with the MU2, presumably).
I have an audiophile friend who is a “tech nerd” and goes further down the rabbit hole than anyone I’ve ever known. He has tried them all. He had the Grimm MU1 and didn’t care for it. Like thousands of others , he’d heard of the iconic Tambaqui. At my recommendation he purchased the Mola Mola Tambaqui and is officially IN LUST. He has moved into the Antipodes ecosystem, starting with the K50 and then upgrading to the Oladra. He believes it is a match made in heaven He’s tried every output from the Oladra into the Tambaqui and like the COO Mark Cole, he prefers the AES connection to all others.
At his suggestion, I’ve ordered the K22 player to compare it against my coveted Sonore Signature Rendu which he ALSO had for many years - a tough player to beat. . I‘m friends with an “A” dealer who handles the Innuous brand. When questioned about Antipodes he remarked that it is truly among the elite brands that is “next level” and feels it is every bit as good as the finest Innuous device.
Mola Mola distributor Bill Parish will tell you that while the MMT sounds great as a stand alone network streamer, it doesn’t compare to how it performs with a good streamer/player.
So I hope this helps in your decision process. I‘ve not heard the other DACS you reference here though many reviewers like Steve Guttenberg and Darko prefer it to DCS. My friend has heard them all and has found peace with MMT and Antipodes.
Good luck!
I am a fan of the Antipode stuff which is arguably more 'purist' vs the MU1 (which is in fact resampling / digital filtering), although of course going all the way up to the OLADRA gets you into pretty crazy money. I'm confounded why people don't (as far as I can read / google?) compare the SYSTEM COST of, say, a MMT / OLADRA with the system cost (and I know I'm not quite doing apples to apples here) of an mid-level MSB (which can have its own sophisticated streamer thing) or the latest Rossini with clock -- at these amounts of money I think its fair to be a little loose with precise cost matching; no one is going to run a Rossini off of USB from their MacBook.
One great thing or terrible thing about Antipodes is the litany of options (should I run Roon > Squeeze? HQPlayer? Which of the 8 million filter combinations?) the user has to (or can) choose from. It's curious that rarely in the MMT fan do we hear about the Innuos stuff - dead simple, USB only, and of course from reviews (and a friend's system with the MScaler / DAVE / ARC6 lps, a very different DAC conflagration) a very fine server as well.
Also, to be clear, I'm not really asking for comparisons to Bartok (a la Darko, Guttenberg).. My experience is that a (properly dressed up) MMT is beyond a Bartok, even APEX, although I'd love to hear that comparison too. But because of its unique position in the market I wouldn't move away from the MMT unless I was going up a whole 'level' -- used Rossini money at least.
When I moved from my Krell preamp to the Mola Mola Makua preamp my system was taken to the next level. There is some awesome synergy at play between the Tambaqwui and Makua. I think it plays way beyond its price point. True state of the art class A line stage. As for Antipodes, for me there are only a few choices in which have interest. 1) Roon of course. 2)Roon/Squeeze. 3) POSSIBLY Squeezebox stand-alone. 4) I have interest in exploring Stylus Plus which is a software/music player software as part of Euphony. Some say it is among the best if not the best. Pink Faun just chose to offer its core as central to their latest 20K players, which I suppose says something if they like t that much. I would like to at least try it in conjunction with my K22 if Antipodes can support it. The parent company out of Croatia makes a few units branded as Summus and there isn't a lot of information out there. Power Holdings is the US distributor and apparently the best results are achieved by running their (big surprise) hardware.
Hello All, As an owner of two MM Tambaqui's, a Grimm MU1 and experience with different streamers and Roon Core, I can relay some thoughts.
First, the Tambaqui is amazing. I have a stand alone MMT with Audionet Stern and Heisenbergs in my reference system. I thought I had arrived when I replaced my PS Audio Direct Stream > Auralic Vega G2 > Tambaqui with it's internal streamer. Then added Auralic Aries G2 with much improvement. Then I modded its power with an expensive Sean Jacob's AR6 power supply. This was better but finicky on my network. All this time I was running roon core on a Nucleus + with a very optimized digital front end including JCAT M12 gold switch. NO fiber.
As my Aries kept loosing my network, and my Nucleus core also prone to hiccups, I bought a Grimm MU1. It is BETTER and more SIMPLE by far.
It eliminated my Roon Nucleus (as the MU1 runs Roon Core). It also sounds better, especially streaming any resolution of Qobuz. It eliminated 1) Roon Nucleus +, 2) power supply for same, 3) Power cord for same, 4) space in my office computer rack, and at least one network cable. And sounds BETTER.
My second Tambaqui is inside my MM Makua, which as stated here, is an amazing piece of audio, esthetics and synergy. Having the MMT inside the pre (a concept I do not easily choose) again saves space, power cord and interconnects. As this system is upstairs in our family room, it also qualifies as an amazing sounding 'lifestyle' piece that fits and looks good. I initially had it with the beautifully paired Kaluga amps. But having tried my Audionet (then Max's) with the Makua it was no contest. The Kalugas left and I moved the Audionet Max amps upstairs with the Makua. All cabling is Kubala Sonsa Elation or Realization.
So now I had a new issue; the system with the Grimm MU1 easily sounded better than the one using the Tambaqui's internal streamer. So I played with moving the Grimm back and forth, and EASILY appreciated its improvement to the Tambaqui internal streamer. Now I wanted another Grimm. Problem - the Grimm MU1 can NOT serve as a streamer only. It must run its own core to function, and I need the second one to be endpoint only. I have spoken with Grimm, and they say by years end there will be updates to MU1 to allow one to be endpoint only. We shall see.
So in the meantime I can not help but to explore other streamers. Aurender ? possibly the N30 but it as of yet does not run Roon ( I know why).
Antipodes? Just too out there for me. Pink Faun? Taiko - maybe!
So my lesson in Roon or no Roon:: I now have in on trial the S1 streamer from JCAT (XACT S1). It does not run Roon, as Marcin has designed this streamer to sound best and that is to not run Roon. His software is JPLAY which has been around a bit. Guess what? This XACT S1 streamer flat out sounds better than the Grimm running Roon. Blacker. Quieter. Better micro details. I have A-B'd the Grimm and the S1 many many times.
But no Roon. And I miss it. Some say they do not miss it but the versatility with my other two endpoints is fun and convenient. (sound in bedroom and bathroom). And the selections of songs that Roon picks after my songs is spot on. I have found much music I enjoy this way. No other software seems to be as good as this. I use no Roon post processing.
I now clearly understand why manufacturers say their software sounds better than roon. But I want my cake and to eat it too!
I think Taiko is the one for this, and I may go there in the future. And, as with the MU2, Taiko's future embedded DAC with the Extreme would simplify things much and again save (can you say save with an Extreme?) interconnects, power cords and space.
So today, the Grimm MU1 works in my system very easily and wonderfully, and the XACT S1 sounds amazing, even better than the Grimm, with the cost of no Roon.
First, the Tambaqui is amazing. I have a stand alone MMT with Audionet Stern and Heisenbergs in my reference system. I thought I had arrived when I replaced my PS Audio Direct Stream > Auralic Vega G2 > Tambaqui with it's internal streamer. Then added Auralic Aries G2 with much improvement. Then I modded its power with an expensive Sean Jacob's AR6 power supply. This was better but finicky on my network. All this time I was running roon core on a Nucleus + with a very optimized digital front end including JCAT M12 gold switch. NO fiber.
As my Aries kept loosing my network, and my Nucleus core also prone to hiccups, I bought a Grimm MU1. It is BETTER and more SIMPLE by far.
It eliminated my Roon Nucleus (as the MU1 runs Roon Core). It also sounds better, especially streaming any resolution of Qobuz. It eliminated 1) Roon Nucleus +, 2) power supply for same, 3) Power cord for same, 4) space in my office computer rack, and at least one network cable. And sounds BETTER.
My second Tambaqui is inside my MM Makua, which as stated here, is an amazing piece of audio, esthetics and synergy. Having the MMT inside the pre (a concept I do not easily choose) again saves space, power cord and interconnects. As this system is upstairs in our family room, it also qualifies as an amazing sounding 'lifestyle' piece that fits and looks good. I initially had it with the beautifully paired Kaluga amps. But having tried my Audionet (then Max's) with the Makua it was no contest. The Kalugas left and I moved the Audionet Max amps upstairs with the Makua. All cabling is Kubala Sonsa Elation or Realization.
So now I had a new issue; the system with the Grimm MU1 easily sounded better than the one using the Tambaqui's internal streamer. So I played with moving the Grimm back and forth, and EASILY appreciated its improvement to the Tambaqui internal streamer. Now I wanted another Grimm. Problem - the Grimm MU1 can NOT serve as a streamer only. It must run its own core to function, and I need the second one to be endpoint only. I have spoken with Grimm, and they say by years end there will be updates to MU1 to allow one to be endpoint only. We shall see.
So in the meantime I can not help but to explore other streamers. Aurender ? possibly the N30 but it as of yet does not run Roon ( I know why).
Antipodes? Just too out there for me. Pink Faun? Taiko - maybe!
So my lesson in Roon or no Roon:: I now have in on trial the S1 streamer from JCAT (XACT S1). It does not run Roon, as Marcin has designed this streamer to sound best and that is to not run Roon. His software is JPLAY which has been around a bit. Guess what? This XACT S1 streamer flat out sounds better than the Grimm running Roon. Blacker. Quieter. Better micro details. I have A-B'd the Grimm and the S1 many many times.
But no Roon. And I miss it. Some say they do not miss it but the versatility with my other two endpoints is fun and convenient. (sound in bedroom and bathroom). And the selections of songs that Roon picks after my songs is spot on. I have found much music I enjoy this way. No other software seems to be as good as this. I use no Roon post processing.
I now clearly understand why manufacturers say their software sounds better than roon. But I want my cake and to eat it too!
I think Taiko is the one for this, and I may go there in the future. And, as with the MU2, Taiko's future embedded DAC with the Extreme would simplify things much and again save (can you say save with an Extreme?) interconnects, power cords and space.
So today, the Grimm MU1 works in my system very easily and wonderfully, and the XACT S1 sounds amazing, even better than the Grimm, with the cost of no Roon.
Interesting results and helpful information. The MU1 software upgrade should allow the use of JPLAY too. But I also find Roon to be an ideal platform and want to maximize it in any way possible. Adding a Network Acoustics muon pro passive filter before the MU1 was a nice improvement (I see you use one too).
Since I run the Tambaqui straight to the Kalugas, I have been considering what a Makua (as line stage) would bring but that is another box an more cables (not my preference). Perhaps a Makua with the internal DAC would be a better option. What do you think?
Great post, and always happy to have a fellow member affirm my belief that the MMT Isa uniquely superb DAC in its price point that competes with the best of them - even at 2-3 times its price point.
i am awaiting delivery of the Antipodes K22 player to compare against my Sonore Signature Rendu which is a superb streamer feeding a Small Green Computer server. . I know a few guys with impeccable taste who, like you and I, are deeply committed/hooked on the Roon ecosystem We all go down the rabbit hole and ultimately need “compromise.” If one gets a 1 or 2% bump in SQ but must forfeit the interface so coveted , is it really worth it? Every person will have to make that call.
What I CAN say is that there are options with respect to both Sonore and Antipodes in that you can choose to run Squeeze in conjunction with Roon and you WILL get different sonics. Is it “better?” That’s subjective. I have a friend who uses the full blown version of Squeezebox with his Oladra when he wants to do some serious listening. And when he wishes to discover NEW music he reverts to Roon RAAT, which, let’s face it, is pretty darn good. Christian Punter offers up an excellent review of the Antipodes K41 and K22 here and personally, I’m excited to see and hear how my K22 integrates into my system. https://www.hifi-advice.com/blog/re...-reviews/antipodes-k41-and-k22-music-servers/
Cheers,
I can tell you from personal experience that adding the Makua preamplifier to pair with your Tambaqui will FOR SURE take your system to the next level. It is EASILY as good as preamps in the 30-40k price range. Perhaps you could work out a trade for your stand alone Tambaqui for a Makua with the DAC card if you are loathe to add more cabling. In any case, I wouldn’t think twice about the Makua. It’s stunning on every level.
Thank you! Exactly what I wanted to know (before an in-home demo).
I guess I'll check in with Bill Parish regarding standalone Makua vs. Makua with DAC. He has repeatedly made the point that the DAC board is the same as the Tambaqui. My inclination is the Makua+DAC since I prefer a simple system (after years of many more boxes). High WAF for the Makua too (living room = listening room).
I agree that is the best option for you, given antipathy to additional cabling. I think Bill might agree (as many do) that the DAC might indeed sound better within the Makua line stage and certainly every bit as good. I went from an EXCELLENT Krell Illusion to the Makua and as good as the Krell performed, there Makua was a significant improvement in SQ.
it really is just curiosity on my part: would a Makua provide even greater listening pleasure? The Tambaqui (fronted by the MU1) straight to the Kalugas = enjoying music hours each day (and forgetting about the gear).
Sadly yes @PVP. The volume on the Tambaqui is not the best, and I believe you loose resolution at lower volumes. ANY good preamp would be an improvement. But the Makua w onboard tambaqui is an elegant piece. That is my set up (mostly) the Grimm and the Makua. There are a pair of black Audionet Max amps somewhere...As I have Elation interconnects and power cords here, I have saved the price of the Tambaqui, an Elation 2m pc, and a pair of Elation RCA interconnects for the cost and simplicity of the Makua w onboard Tambaqui. the only negative is what if you want a different DAC? You can always try one through the Makua very easily at least. @KrellFan1 is spot on here.
Thanks. Regarding the DAC, I'm interested in the Grimm MU2. Being able to consolidate functions in one piece can allow the designer to optimize both streamer and DAC. And the Grimm folks have hit their stride. Perhaps it is just different from the Tambaqui + MU1 and not "better."
Regardless, I'll keep the Makua in mind. Seems like a natural addition to my Mola Mola ecosystem. When I saw the early photos of the Makua flanked by the Kalugas, it was audio lust at first sight. I've avoided line stages for years as I simplified my setup, but the specs demonstrate that the Makua has the extreme transparency I enjoy.
I really like the KS cables. Is there a way to describe the sound of the Elation ICs? That would seem like another natural upgrade for me. I like the Elation PCs, but that doesn't really tell me about the ICs.
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