My default audiophile state: dissatisfaction

[scouter]

Sounds like he needs to stop reading the Audio mags, and go listen a lot to systems at different dealers. For what he's paying to go thru that much equipment, he could fly to Overture or Goodwins, or any other number of dealers who are able to help him get a "synergistic equipped" system. I bet the dealers love him

You are not alone.

I have a friend who changes components on a weekly basis.
In the last year he went thru the following speakers-Magnepan MMG, Kef LS50,and now has a pair of Joseph speakers.
He has also gone thru numerous amp, pre-amp, integrated and phono stages in the same time frame.

Something he doesn't change are his wires.He's not convinced they make a difference.Same goes for power tweaks.

I've mentioned that maybe this practise is what is the root of the problem with his short term romance with any new gear.

I would say he gets more enjoyment out of the chase than with the listening experience.

I enjoyed the sound of most of his set ups, some were steps up, some down and some just sideways.

He always convinces himself that the new piece is better than the last was, but the cycle continues.

He has bought some new speaker wires and a power cord, but I haven't heard the results.

The wires are not expensive,not Cardas or Nordost, but better than stock,or so it would appear from what I've read about them.

He has all the time in the world to listen to music on his system.That may be part of the problem.

I've told him that whenever he starts to nit pick it and look for some reason to trade and try something different he should just pack it away and buy something from a pawn shop and listen to that for awhile.
Then when that grows weary, re-insert the better gear .

Then decide which one makes you happy and stick with it.
Familiarity can breed discontent.

It can believe that.

 

[Barry2013]

You are not alone.

I have a friend who changes components on a weekly basis.
In the last year he went thru the following speakers-Magnepan MMG, Kef LS50,and now has a pair of Joseph speakers.
He has also gone thru numerous amp, pre-amp, integrated and phono stages in the same time frame.

Something he doesn't change are his wires.He's not convinced they make a difference.Same goes for power tweaks.

I've mentioned that maybe this practise is what is the root of the problem with his short term romance with any new gear.

I would say he gets more enjoyment out of the chase than with the listening experience.

I enjoyed the sound of most of his set ups, some were steps up, some down and some just sideways.

He always convinces himself that the new piece is better than the last was, but the cycle continues.

He has bought some new speaker wires and a power cord, but I haven't heard the results.

The wires are not expensive,not Cardas or Nordost, but better than stock,or so it would appear from what I've read about them.

He has all the time in the world to listen to music on his system.That may be part of the problem.

I've told him that whenever he starts to nit pick it and look for some reason to trade and try something different he should just pack it away and buy something from a pawn shop and listen to that for awhile.
Then when that grows weary, re-insert the better gear .

Then decide which one makes you happy and stick with it.
Familiarity can breed discontent.

It can believe that.

Yes not at all uncommon.
I am sure the last comment about reading too many audiomags is part of the problem.
IME a lot of people do know what they are looking for but have not heard it, can't find it and have difficulty in describing it in sufficiently meaningful terms for somebody to able to give immediate help. I had similar issues years ago before I found what I was looking for. Getting out and listening to different systems at shows etc and finding an experienced guide/mentor is the answer. It takes time and may mean upgrading incrementally to get the desired system because it may not be affordable in one go, but that is bearable once you know what you want. It is not helped by his prejudices over cables. They really are important to system synergy and the desired sound,
If he is big enough not to be offended maybe you should refer him to this thread?

 

[Diapason]

I'm not a box-swapper (anything but, to be honest) but I'm certainly swayed by reading reviews. I have to give myself a talking to occasionally and remember that reviews in magazines are designed to sell magazines. Apart from that, I regularly like components that reviewers don't and vice versa. One of the benefits of a forum like this is that you get away from the "best component" idea, and realise that there are many ways of approaching this hobby.

Thanks for all the good wishes about the impending new arrival. Baby is due on Saturday, so I'll shortly be back into the world of sleepless nights and nappies and bottles. Music listening featured highly in baby number 1's first weeks and months, so I'd be intending to repeat that as best I can. Won't be in the nerd-cave much, though, the old Sonus Faber Signums in the living room will see most of the action...

 

[Rodney Gold]

I chased for many years , I get as much enjoyment fiddling with the gear and listening to my music presented with a "different" perspective Meanwhile , I listen to around 5-6 hours of music a day..

I got myself a set of speakers/amp that is to all intents , for me , not upgradeable..the Giya G1's/Devialet

Now im still fiddling around and fettling this and that , but this time with room treatments and Dirac and so on

I'm still considering 3 subs....

I dont think I will ever be content , I am a bit of a perfectionist - and I want perfect with no compromises.

 

[spiritofmusic]

The problem w/this hobby is that every time you get a major impvt in a component, you're in Seventh Heaven for a period and then a shortfall elsewhere is highlighted. Can't live with, can't live w/out. Then you get the itch that needs to be scratched.
In my case, recent amps change has brought a lot together, but I am aware of more shortfalls in my spkrs than I was before, despite liking my sound the most ever. Go figure!

 

[Rodney Gold]

your next move should be room treatment if you havent already treated it
I am building my listening room around my speakers
Passive and active (DSP) "correction" is the best bang for the buck and can change sound a ton more than box swapping can.
Redoing my room is costing me around $15k and even tho its not 100% finished , the improvement in sound is amazing..

 

[PeterA]

your next move should be room treatment if you havent already treated it
I am building my listening room around my speakers
Passive and active (DSP) "correction" is the best bang for the buck and can change sound a ton more than box swapping can.
Redoing my room is costing me around $15k and even tho its not 100% finished , the improvement in sound is amazing..

Agree 100%. The problem is that no everyone can have a well designed/treated dedicated room. But it can really make an improvement. Once the room is fixed and then the speakers and listening location are optimized, differences in gear comparisons can be much easier heard and buying decisions can be made with more confidence.

 

[Orb]

your next move should be room treatment if you havent already treated it
I am building my listening room around my speakers
Passive and active (DSP) "correction" is the best bang for the buck and can change sound a ton more than box swapping can.
Redoing my room is costing me around $15k and even tho its not 100% finished , the improvement in sound is amazing..

I agree that room treatment does make a difference but I do not think that is the crux of the issue here.
It is an interesting experience to hear a musician play a wind/string instrument in different places in ones room, in nearly all situations in my experience it still sounds incredibly natural with niggles/dissonance being pretty marginal (once one takes into account reverb time and some basics for bass-room-boundary behaviour that the OP has done in this instance).
Of course this also assumes objects-furnishing is not directly exacerbating the situation (such as wooden-glass table in between listener and speaker/painting behind listener/etc) and also being a point of interaction.

Just think how often one has visited someone's house with a piano and how natural it still sounds, then consider those heard that are reproduced through recording/mix-mastering at CD quality levels (perceived quality can vary a lot and can also depend on the DAC and filter implementation); this is interesting because a piano does not have a great amount of harmonics/partials beyond 15khz.

Cheers
Orb

 

[scouter]

I agree that room treatment does make a difference but I do not think that is the crux of the issue here.
It is an interesting experience to hear a musician play a wind/string instrument in different places in ones room, in nearly all situations in my experience it still sounds incredibly natural with niggles/dissonance being pretty marginal (once one takes into account reverb time and some basics for bass-room-boundary behaviour that the OP has done in this instance).
Of course this also assumes objects-furnishing is not directly exacerbating the situation (such as wooden-glass table in between listener and speaker/painting behind listener/etc) and also being a point of interaction.

Just think how often one has visited someone's house with a piano and how natural it still sounds, then consider those heard that are reproduced through recording/mix-mastering at CD quality levels (perceived quality can vary a lot and can also depend on the DAC and filter implementation); this is interesting because a piano does not have a great amount of harmonics/partials beyond 15khz.

Cheers
Orb

Agreed with the room just being part of the problem- though an important part of the equation. As an aside, I am amazed at how little info is seen above 15k at a meaningful level when listening to my system, and using AudioTools Acoustics FFT analysis no matter the musical genre. Speakers are Magico S5s , so I know the tweeters will go up to high levels.

 

[sbo6]

I would take my time and systematically employ all the recommendations (room treatment, room measuring, speaker placement, etc) before making any component changes. You have very good speakers and you might be surprised how much you might be able to improve and tailor the sound by also experimenting with different cables. Also, as others have said, your mood in directly related to your musical enjoyment. If you are feeling down, you are already at a disadvantage for an enjoyable listening session. Hope you sort things out - or maybe you are just not addicted like the rest of us any more?

 

[andromedaaudio]

A great room is the cream of the crop , so i suggest thats where the ultimate satisfaction lies , true high end .
But since i have somewhat limited finance personally ( building a dedicated room in amsterdam somewhere is gonna cost you ) and i like to live in a high appartment block , with big windows and a lot of light.
But my system could be much more satisfactory if i could just unleash the beast , and cranck it open
I usually play at about 8 or 9 oclock , but if i tune it to 12 o clock its like a hurricane , and the neighbours will show up, i would love to hear it at full throttle


Ps another natural upgrade point in the topicstarters case would be moving to larger speakers , speakers with large bassunits for example

 

[KeithR]

I think many get dissatisfied as they are chasing detail and resolution with all the hottest brands, materials, and specs. They are focused on notes, not music. They play only tracks, not albums. In short, they forget about the "whole note" and the music experience. I always encourage these folks to go hear some live music. You don't focus on the notes at a concert- and you shouldn't at home.

I also recommend to people to ditch all their "tweaks", start with some basic copper cables and try again. Some people in this hobby have gone so overboard on "tweaks" they have lost track of what's real. My guess is they don't need half the "tweaks" they have, just like an older person doesn't need half the meds shes on.

Best advice from a dealer I heard was "music is warm"- that's right. So many hifi systems are cold and harmonically bleached all in the name of "accuracy"

 

[andromedaaudio]

I think the problem a lot of audiophiles and also dealers have is running after reviewers , and so they keep switching "upgrading " , switching cables cdplayers/amps and what not, until ???? ......until what?
Magazines live of new products , and so do most dealers ,and therefore a lot of audiophiles keep changing

 

[andromedaaudio]

Oh and by the way after rereading the comments from atmasphere as well as my own expericiences , where is the great pre amp in your system , that would be the first thing i would add

 

[Al M.]

I think many get dissatisfied as they are chasing detail and resolution with all the hottest brands, materials, and specs. They are focused on notes, not music. They play only tracks, not albums. In short, they forget about the "whole note" and the music experience. I always encourage these folks to go hear some live music. You don't focus on the notes at a concert- and you shouldn't at home.

I agree with that. Tonality, palpability of sound and dynamics, for example, are more important to a system than ultimate resolution.

Best advice from a dealer I heard was "music is warm"- that's right.

Mostly, but not necessarily. I have heard rather cold acoustics from a seat farther back in the great concert hall of Rotterdam, De Doelen. It was a fantastic, beautiful sound though. Also, sitting once in the 4th row, left of center, in Boston Symphony Hall yielded a rather bright and light tonal balance, with hyper-detail: the violin section sounded like 16 individual players. Yet sitting in some other positions a bit further back in the same hall yielded a warm, gutsy tonal balance, with common amounts of sonic detail.

So many hifi systems are cold and harmonically bleached all in the name of "accuracy"

That may well be. Mine usually sounds relatively warm yet is also capable of delivering ice-cold sound when the recording demands it. The warmth, by the way, is not a function of my tube amps. A Spectral DMC-15SS/DMA-260 combo yielded an almost identical tonal balance in my system.

 

[PeterA]

Accuracy, awh yeah, that word. Accurate means fidelity to the source in my book. It does not mean warm or bleached, it means replicating the recording wiggles accurately. As long as we understand that the illusion trying to be reproduced by stereo is just that, an illusion, then of course by our biases we can choose a system that is as accurate or inaccurate as our tastes desire. Colored systems color everything, and if that's what we want then that's fine. The mix and master need to do the job right so we can enjoy the best illusion....they seldom get it right IMO. I would guess that your favorite song always sounds great to you, on the car or on the big rig or even on some elses rig...and that's the mix and mastering that gets the depth and width and balance right, and also our biases at to what we like, add those two together and we get a great sound almost always.

If we go the route of what sounds good to us vs accuracy from a system, then the guy with his low mid fi system that he loves has the ultimate system since it sounds right to him. Without accuracy, there is no reference, and basically, get a room of audiophile together and while they may tend to agree some, most will come away with different ways of describing the same system. I am not sure accuracy is the goal these days as much as change for change sake. A "house sound" is either more accurate or more colored depending on the ultimate judge, each one of us. This hobby is highly personal.

Great post, tomelex.

 

[Big Dog RJ]

Greetings gentlemen! it's good to be back. The good old pops headed back home, he had a blast of a time, and I looked after him very well with my whole week off.

Getting back to this dilema, it seems like we've just about recommended all that we possibly can. The recommendations / advice have been spot on! For example, music must sound warm, relaxing, room acoustics / treatment is totally important, lack of pre-amp could be an issue... all excellent stuff.
I strongly believe that now it is upto this person to wholly embrace what has been analyzed and consider the so called " technical mind set" before implementing any changes. After all as one member has stated, the person is in a state of dissatisfaction already... hence nothing may change it, other than the mind set. Chasing after those magazine reviews, best of the best components, best in the world speakers and systems is totally marketing strategy at its best! And audiophiles as true suckers chase after these castles in the air...

Whereas "music lovers" do not chase such hot air. They instead sit back and listen to the music and really appreciate what they've got. In fact the term "audiophile" has become mistreated, and I believe has lost its credibility. There are a far greater number of people whom I have come across who are dropping their subscriptions to TAS, but not so much with Stereophile. I guess the proof is definitely in the pudding, hence probably why this forum was created in the first place.

Someone suggested just getting back to "basics" could be the key; I believe this to be 110% true! The basics never let you down, and that is the very reason why I settled for a Rega RP3 and not a Michelle Orb or Gyrodeck, although I have the means. I believe the appreciation of the simpler things are far more enjoyable and deliver the greatest satisfaction. Especially when you have some extra funds available to spend with family!

Now it looks like there is a kiddo on the way here, and the focus on the system will be diverted for sometime. I believe it's time to reflect on the finer things in life and enjoy the first few months of a new family member. You never know what that new life will bring along the way, and how it will actually improve your overall "quality" of life, satisfaction and contentment.
From this point onwards I also believe the system will begin to improve, from what angle I really don't know but you will find a way to improve it once your focus has shifted away from it for sometime... if that makes any sense.

Cheers and all the best! To your family and great music,
RJ

 

[Joe Whip]

Congrats on the upcoming addition to the family. I exposed both of my kids to the joys of music through my system. I used to get them to sleep at night when they were babies with soft music. Shirley Horn really worked great! One of my kids is a vocalist, piano playing songwriter. HOpefully all though hours on the system helped.

 

[Diapason]

Hello everyone, thanks for all the good wishes. Baby Lara arrived about 2 weeks ago, a little bundle of perfection, and all is well. Needless to say there hasn't been a huge amount of music listening done in the intervening period, although our 3 year-old has demanded occasional bouts of "Twinkle Twinkle Little Star", etc. so at least she's getting some use out of the big rig. I'm going to have to work on expanding her repertoire, though. I've actually bought lots of classical box sets recently (they're just so cheap now) and I find myself wondering how long it will be before I've listened to all of the CDs in those sets. I'm guessing decades.

Anyway, the hifi issues remain but I should stress that they don't always colour my enjoyment, far from it in fact. Opportunities to sit and listen are sufficiently rare these days that I don't waste them with angst and audiophilia! Actually, I've been practising for a harpsichord exam coming up on Monday, so music-making has been taking precedence over music-listening. Don't worry, I'll be back with further hifi reports in due course...

 

[RadioWonder]

I sometimes wonder if I enjoy constant tweaking of my system more than listening to great acoustical music... All I know is that every improvement to my system brings me closer to the music and a transcendental state of mind...