Magico changes tonality (again)...

PeterA

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I happen to think Alon Wolf is constantly trying to improve things and rarely satisfied. I just read this installment of JV's review. Agree or disagree with Valin, he is a good writer and he explains more than what we usually read in a typical review. He tries to explain why things sound the way they do to him and touches on the technology responsible for the sound. He is passionate about music and trying to explain what he hears.

Yes, it seems that tonality has changed a bit, but I think it may have more to do with advances in technology than in Wolf's voicing per se. I have heard many Magico speakers and it is clear to me that Wolf is constantly changing and improving the designs in an apparent effort to get closer to the sound of real music. I'm sure many who don't like the sound of Magico speakers will disagree, but the M-Projects are the most natural sounding speakers I have ever heard.

There is very low distortion and JV's measurements more or less correspond to the sound that I have heard in Madfloyd's system. They are not as bright as the Q5 or Q7. And they are lower in distortion than my Mini 2s and certainly go much deeper in the bass. I happen to think they sound more like the Q than the S, and frankly, it has been a while since I heard the M5, but I do think the M Projects sound more natural than the S and Q and more similar to the Mini 2 and M5. They just have much less distortion than the Mini or M5. They are less bright, but ultra clean, naturally warm and real sounding. I love the tonality of this latest model and it appears that it will trickle down into future models.
 

cannata

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I happen to think Alon Wolf is constantly trying to improve things and rarely satisfied. I just read this installment of JV's review. Agree or disagree with Valin, he is a good writer and he explains more than what we usually read in a typical review. He tries to explain why things sound the way they do to him and touches on the technology responsible for the sound. He is passionate about music and trying to explain what he hears.

Yes, it seems that tonality has changed a bit, but I think it may have more to do with advances in technology than in Wolf's voicing per se. I have heard many Magico speakers and it is clear to me that Wolf is constantly changing and improving the designs in an apparent effort to get closer to the sound of real music. I'm sure many who don't like the sound of Magico speakers will disagree, but the M-Projects are the most natural sounding speakers I have ever heard.

There is very low distortion and JV's measurements more or less correspond to the sound that I have heard in Madfloyd's system. They are not as bright as the Q5 or Q7. And they are lower in distortion than my Mini 2s and certainly go much deeper in the bass. I happen to think they sound more like the Q than the S, and frankly, it has been a while since I heard the M5, but I do think the M Projects sound more natural than the S and Q and more similar to the Mini 2 and M5. They just have much less distortion than the Mini or M5. They are less bright, but ultra clean, naturally warm and real sounding. I love the tonality of this latest model and it appears that it will trickle down into future models.

But to Madfloyed they sounded lean and bright :confused: If you read reports from Munich, you would swear people where at different shows when it comes to Magico. It is if Magico can sound like anything people imagine them sounding, each one according to its own "views" with not much correlation to reality. I don't think I have ever seen such bizarre polarization.

I don't think "tonality" has anything to do with it. The M Pro is simply a MUCH better speaker. They still have all the resolution (and then some) of anything I have heard but they portraying it in a much more "relaxed" less mechanical, natural way.

I think Jeff Fritz some it up nicely:

http://www.soundstageultra.com/index.php/features-menu/opinion-menu/574
 

BlueFox

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But to Madfloyed they sounded lean and bright

He also had both amps plugged into a single circuit with some transformer gizmo in the circuit. Once he went to separate circuits for each amp with no transformers they started sounding great.
 

Elberoth

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But to Madfloyed they sounded lean and bright :confused:

You must have missed the (happy) end of this story:

The reason I was finding my M-Pros to be thin sounding (and lacking bass) was due to an under-spec'd isolation transformer in my electrical path. Basically I was starving my amps!

I bypassed the transformer 2 weeks ago and have been in heavenly bliss ever since.
 

cannata

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You must have missed the (happy) end of this story:

The reason I was finding my M-Pros to be thin sounding (and lacking bass) was due to an under-spec'd isolation transformer in my electrical path. Basically I was starving my amps!

I bypassed the transformer 2 weeks ago and have been in heavenly bliss ever since.

I did not miss it, and I am happy for Madfloyed that he finally found his bliss, but this saga was a bit strange one from the begging. Everyone that was in his place thought that they sounded awesome from the get go, but he did not (and that is perfectly fine, that is not the point). And didn't he liked the S5 in the same setup? The MPro are more efficient and easier to drive so why should it be an issue? All I am saying is that we are all very susceptible to all sorts of influences that have nothing to do with the sound of the product. We also get used to certain sound, and when presented with something unfamiliar, even if better objectively, we may reject it.
I actually suspect that that is what happened to Madfloyed, he just needed time to get used to greatness;)
 
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MadFloyd

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I did not miss it, and I am happy for Madfloyed that he finally found his bliss, but this saga was a bit strange one from the begging. Everyone that was in his place thought that they sounded awesome from the get go, but he did not (and that is perfectly fine, that is not the point). And didn't he liked the S5 in the same setup? The MPro are more efficient and easier to drive so why should it be an issue? All I am saying is that we are all very susceptible to all sorts of influences that have nothing to do with the sound of the product. We also get used to certain sound, and when presented with something unfamiliar, even if better objectively, we may reject it.
I actually suspect that that is what happened to Madfloyed, he just needed time to get used to greatness;)

Interesting theory, but I don't entirely buy it. :)

It's certainly true that having come from ported speakers (like you, cannata) there was some getting used to a sealed cabinet, but as a bass player it didn't take me long.

I wasn't totally happy with my S5's because of what I perceived to be a bass problem. I had noted that when I turned up the volume that the tonal balance changed and that the treble got louder than the bass (i.e. it wasn't linear). I wondered if this was normal for a sealed cabinet (since I hadn't owned one before) and started a thread asking about it. I am a lover of many types of music and could not play many types of rock/pop. Even the latest Mono box of the Beatles (highly acclaimed) was pretty rough at 90 db. I added a subwoofer and re-positioned the speakers to get the most bass I could. I came to the conclusion that with my somewhat open listening environment that I needed larger speakers. I wasn't interested in anything other than Magico. If only they had an extra 10" woofer I thought... they should make an S7! Meanwhile most of the time I was content and the only times I wasn't was when guests were over that liked to listen to rock/pop fairly loud and I found the sound to be less than stellar.

Incidentally, one friend (a woman) would comment that there wasn't enough bass and that she liked my previous speakers better (Wilson Alexias).

Well.. Magico came out with M-Projects and me not knowing that they would follow up with an S7, I robbed a few banks and took a leap of faith.

The M-Projects may not be as lean as the Q (which I've never owned) but I think they are leaner than the S series. At least with an underspec'd isolation transformer denying them full power. :) At one point I switched back and heard how much warmer they sounded but also heard the differences in quality of the midrange and treble and knew that I could never go back to the S5 - that I had to find a way to make the M-Projects work.

Anyways, most of you know that I had an electrical problem that has since been solved. That helped tremendously. I still wasn't entirely happy until I made some other changes and I'm about to start a thread on that, but suffice to say that I am now really enjoying my system and I don't see myself ever parting with these speakers. They are capable of doing justice to all genres of music and that is very important to me because I listen equally to classical, jazz and rock.

I still have the S5's (anyone want them?) and I feel I should try them again (for fun) since I've never heard them with proper electrical power, but I can't stop listening to the M-Pro's... I am truly addicted.
 

stereo

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Sep 1, 2012
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Madfloyd, I am glad to hear this happy ending! Having listened extensively to the Mpro, I was always wondering what could be wrong in your set up for you not to be 200% satisfied!
 

LL21

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Fantastic news indeed! Enjoy, MadFloyd!
 

Elberoth

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Maybe, with the electrical problem solved, the problems you noticed with the S5 bass quantity will go away too ?

(I never felt my S5s lack bass - quite on the contrary - but my rook is much smaller @ 14x19 feet with mostly concrete walls).
 

MadFloyd

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Maybe, with the electrical problem solved, the problems you noticed with the S5 bass quantity will go away too ?

(I never felt my S5s lack bass - quite on the contrary - but my rook is much smaller @ 14x19 feet with mostly concrete walls).

There's no doubt in my mind. Based on the amount of bass I get now on the M-Pro's there would be no lack of bass on the S5's.
 

CharlesL

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Jun 3, 2014
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.......
Yes, it seems that tonality has changed a bit, but I think it may have more to do with advances in technology than in Wolf's voicing per se. I have heard many Magico speakers and it is clear to me that Wolf is constantly changing and improving the designs in an apparent effort to get closer to the sound of real music. I'm sure many who don't like the sound of Magico speakers will disagree, but the M-Projects are the most natural sounding speakers I have ever heard.

There is very low distortion and JV's measurements more or less correspond to the sound that I have heard in Madfloyd's system. They are not as bright as the Q5 or Q7. And they are lower in distortion than my Mini 2s and certainly go much deeper in the bass. I happen to think they sound more like the Q than the S, and frankly, it has been a while since I heard the M5, but I do think the M Projects sound more natural than the S and Q and more similar to the Mini 2 and M5. They just have much less distortion than the Mini or M5. They are less bright, but ultra clean, naturally warm and real sounding. I love the tonality of this latest model and it appears that it will trickle down into future models.

I also read from others that the M Pro is warmer, more relaxed than the Q's. Would it not be closer to the S and that the excellent reception of the S (S5 especially) might have some influence on Wolf's current "voicing" ?
 

stereo

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Sep 1, 2012
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I also read from others that the M Pro is warmer, more relaxed than the Q's. Would it not be closer to the S and that the excellent reception of the S (S5 especially) might have some influence on Wolf's current "voicing" ?
no... it is much closer to the Q in the midrange and highs (actually even more transparent, with the exception of Q7 mk2), but what makes a lot of difference is that the tweeter is the lowest distortion tweeter on the planet. Which means that any typical tweeter brightness has disappeared. I think it has nothing to do with voicing, much more with lower distortion which makes your brain perceive it as less bright. That's why I would picture the Mproject as a "relaxed Q": all details are there, and actualyl even more than on the Q... but it doesn't sound analytical at all, details are not in your face.
Btw, I agree that S serie has been very successful, but there are still a lot of people who prefer the sound of the Q than of the S (me included)
 

Orb

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no... it is much closer to the Q in the midrange and highs (actually even more transparent, with the exception of Q7 mk2), but what makes a lot of difference is that the tweeter is the lowest distortion tweeter on the planet. Which means that any typical tweeter brightness has disappeared. I think it has nothing to do with voicing, much more with lower distortion which makes your brain perceive it as less bright. That's why I would picture the Mproject as a "relaxed Q": all details are there, and actualyl even more than on the Q... but it doesn't sound analytical at all, details are not in your face.
Btw, I agree that S serie has been very successful, but there are still a lot of people who prefer the sound of the Q than of the S (me included)

That is a good point about the superbly designed new tweeter and its influence in the Mproject.
Do you feel that historically it is mostly the tweeter that may create the perception of an analytical speaker?
Ignoring the mid-range and tweeter integration as the speakers we are talking about (even beyond Magico) do have excellent design in that respect.

Cheers
Orb
 

CharlesL

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Jun 3, 2014
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no... it is much closer to the Q in the midrange and highs (actually even more transparent, with the exception of Q7 mk2), but what makes a lot of difference is that the tweeter is the lowest distortion tweeter on the planet. Which means that any typical tweeter brightness has disappeared. I think it has nothing to do with voicing, much more with lower distortion which makes your brain perceive it as less bright. That's why I would picture the Mproject as a "relaxed Q": all details are there, and actualyl even more than on the Q... but it doesn't sound analytical at all, details are not in your face.
Btw, I agree that S serie has been very successful, but there are still a lot of people who prefer the sound of the Q than of the S (me included)

I also like the Q3, especially for female vocals and smaller acoustic ensembles. I would have chosen the Q3 if it projected a more relaxed presentation for larger scale symphony works during the dealer's demo. The term "relaxed Q" strikes a chord with me. I hope the Mpro technologies will trickle down successfully. I have high expectation for the S7 and any S5 replacement/upgrade.
 

CharlesL

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Jun 3, 2014
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Maybe, with the electrical problem solved, the problems you noticed with the S5 bass quantity will go away too ?

(I never felt my S5s lack bass - quite on the contrary - but my rook is much smaller @ 14x19 feet with mostly concrete walls).

+1. My room is 15.5' x 17.5' with opening to another area of ~100 sq ft at the rear.
 

PeterA

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Dec 6, 2011
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no... it is much closer to the Q in the midrange and highs (actually even more transparent, with the exception of Q7 mk2), but what makes a lot of difference is that the tweeter is the lowest distortion tweeter on the planet. Which means that any typical tweeter brightness has disappeared. I think it has nothing to do with voicing, much more with lower distortion which makes your brain perceive it as less bright. That's why I would picture the Mproject as a "relaxed Q": all details are there, and actualyl even more than on the Q... but it doesn't sound analytical at all, details are not in your face.
Btw, I agree that S serie has been very successful, but there are still a lot of people who prefer the sound of the Q than of the S (me included)

I completely agree with this. I prefer the Q to the S, especially the Q3. The M Pro is just in another class, but closer in overall sound and character to the Q. "Relaxed Q" is a great description of the M Project. I'd love to see the M Project scaled to the size of the Q3 or even the Mini 2 with the curved carbon sides and the curved front aluminum baffle.
 

stereo

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Sep 1, 2012
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I'd love to see the M Project scaled to the size of the Q3 or even the Mini 2 with the curved carbon sides and the curved front aluminum baffle.

me too... only problem is it would be very expensive to build!
 

stereo

Well-Known Member
Sep 1, 2012
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That is a good point about the superbly designed new tweeter and its influence in the Mproject.
Do you feel that historically it is mostly the tweeter that may create the perception of an analytical speaker?
Ignoring the mid-range and tweeter integration as the speakers we are talking about (even beyond Magico) do have excellent design in that respect.

Cheers
Orb

Yes. When the tweeter is very present, we often interpret it as analytical.
The Mproject is very disturbing, because you cannot "hear the tweeter".... in reality it is all there, with all the detailed information you can imagine (I heard things on well known recordings that I never heard on my Q1!)... But you cannot hear it isolated from the rest of the sound because the level of artifacts is extremely low. It all links back to Magico research on low distortion drivers.
Most of the time, when we hear a tweeter, we hear artifacts, break up modes...
in the past, we had a choice between buying a speaker with a lot of micro information, but which can sound sometimes too analytical, and a soft, ear pleasing speaker.... but where most low level information is lost. The new Magico tweeter is the answer
 

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