Looking for new ideas?

[Lee Henley]

Ive been contemplating taking my listening experience to the next level as they say!

Currently have a Mastersound Duventi EL34 based Integrated amplifier hooked put a Bel canto 2.5 dac through Audio Note An-K-spe speakers, which all sound fairly decent to my ears, however I've been longing for quite a while to enhance the listening experience to another level. Ive been looking at a power amp option such a low wattage output Nagra MSA which all though is Solid State may offer something extra to the experience!?

What I'm looking for is a few option from some of the guys on here to audition in the not too near future, please bear in mind that Im UK based and access to one of the equipment may be a bit of a challenge!

Rest of the gear is Notts Anologue Spacedeck, Ortofon Rondo MC cart and EAR 834P phono.

All the digital flew are played via a 2010 Mac Mini

Any ideas / help much appreciated and many thanks

Lee

 

[Lee Henley]

Loudspeakers and room, then a amp which drives the loudspeakers properly .
Keith

Hi keith

I feel the speakers suit the room quite well, sit in the corner and get out of the way, the room is 12.5 x 14' long and has nice wall paper on the walls, so what do ya suggest? Bakoon?

 

[Lee Henley]

If you go with a solid state power amp coming off of an EL34 based experience, you will end up turning the volume control up higher with the solid state amp to get the "sound level" that you like. That's about all I can say. You will probably also experience "less perceived dynamics" than with your tube gear, and all this is based on generalities. Your experience and gear may not fall under these ideas.

That was my thoughts too. Im not opposed to staying with valve's I really do like them and have had them for about 3 years or so know, always fancied a 300B or an 845SET

 

[LL21]

Ive been contemplating taking my listening experience to the next level as they say!

Currently have a Mastersound Duventi EL34 based Integrated amplifier hooked put a Bel canto 2.5 dac through Audio Note An-K-spe speakers, which all sound fairly decent to my ears, however I've been longing for quite a while to enhance the listening experience to another level. Ive been looking at a power amp option such a low wattage output Nagra MSA which all though is Solid State may offer something extra to the experience!?

What I'm looking for is a few option from some of the guys on here to audition in the not too near future, please bear in mind that Im UK based and access to one of the equipment may be a bit of a challenge!

Rest of the gear is Notts Anologue Spacedeck, Ortofon Rondo MC cart and EAR 834P phono.

All the digital flew are played via a 2010 Mac Mini

Any ideas / help much appreciated and many thanks

Lee

A fun trip you are about to take... Couple questions:

1. What do you like about your system...and what specifically about it are you trying to improve to 'the next level'? For example, do you love the mids of your system...and wish for supreme dynamics/bass power, or dramatically improved depth of soundstage, detail? Anything here to give some guidance would be good.

2. What systems/equipment/demos have you heard before that made you say...i wish i could have THAT system? That may also help people provide some useful ideas about how you might wish to get started.

 

[Lee Henley]

A fun trip you are about to take... Couple questions:

1. What do you like about your system...and what specifically about it are you trying to improve to 'the next level'? For example, do you love the mids of your system...and wish for supreme dynamics/bass power, or dramatically improved depth of soundstage, detail? Anything here to give some guidance would be good.

2. What systems/equipment/demos have you heard before that made you say...i wish i could have THAT system? That may also help people provide some useful ideas about how you might wish to get started.

I really love the way the system does the mid range and the highs, I use Audio Note silver interconnects which really does a nice job on the cymbals etc. What I del it doesn't do is the holographic image and the control in the bass, sometime I fell the bass is a bit muddy

Lee

 

[LL21]

I really love the way the system does the mid range and the highs, I use Audio Note silver interconnects which really does a nice job on the cymbals etc. What I del it doesn't do is the holographic image and the control in the bass, sometime I fell the bass is a bit muddy

Lee

Hi Lee,

Ok...that is actually what i was going to guess...and that's partly because that is where i was a few iterations ago on my own personal audio trip. I loved my Celestion SL6si's...and over numerous trials/auditions, i have found my own way of being able to hold onto that magic in the mids...while finding ways to drive propulsive bass and more exact imaging/clarity/detail/decay...and with that nuance.

In my own system i found bass and imaging were largely influenced/driven by 2 key big picture things: control and stability/vibration. I had speakers i really liked...though as Purite suggests, over time those things changed...but i found that by looking into amplification, i significantly improved the ability to control the speaker...which improved its ability to provide detail, control (and not blur) images, and also generate significantly stronger, more propulsive/controlled bass.

I did a little reading on your amp on sixmoons...i cannot guess whether they are providing sufficient control of your speakers or not. Two experiments for now...one on isolation and one on amplifcation. (Note: i tend to like upgrading to components that not only work for the existing system..but generally give me the open-ended ability to keep upgrading in a general direction (i tend to know where i am going)...without having to change that particular component for a while.)

1. Can you get a hold of a more powerful tube or Class A SS amp by any chance? Something (anything actually) with significantly higher current capability...forget its midrange ability for the moment...just want to see what happens to your bass if you stick something powerful in. If you love it, then that's a good place to start where you might be able to keep your speakers. If its still muddy, then it's step 2 or you may, as Keith/Purite suggest, be looking for different speakers. I like Vitus, Gryphon, the old Forte, Pass...heck since this is not (yet) about finding the perfect bass-strong amp that keeps your glorious mids...its just about seeing if your speakers are capable with supreme power of delivery the quality of bass you are looking for...get a Bryston or Krell.

2. Can you get a hold of Entreq Vibb Eaters, HRS or Artesania mass damping plates? I am just curious what happens if you really mass damp the top of your speakers...that should improve bass propulsiveness and power...but i am curious if it will be enough and take you in the right direction.

With these two, you probably learn a bit about your own speaker and what they are capable of...and you might also start to gather more insights into electronics that you might wish to try.

 

[JackD201]

Try to Audition Valvet's new A4 power amps. These babies work great with high efficiency speakers, even very high efficiency speakers.

 

[Lee Henley]

Try to Audition Valvet's new A4 power amps. These babies work great with high efficiency speakers, even very high efficiency speakers.

Had a look on their web site and unfortunately there is no UK distributor so may prove to be difficult which is a shame as they look like nice amps

 

[Lee Henley]

Hi Lee,

Ok...that is actually what i was going to guess...and that's partly because that is where i was a few iterations ago on my own personal audio trip. I loved my Celestion SL6si's...and over numerous trials/auditions, i have found my own way of being able to hold onto that magic in the mids...while finding ways to drive propulsive bass and more exact imaging/clarity/detail/decay...and with that nuance.

In my own system i found bass and imaging were largely influenced/driven by 2 key big picture things: control and stability/vibration. I had speakers i really liked...though as Purite suggests, over time those things changed...but i found that by looking into amplification, i significantly improved the ability to control the speaker...which improved its ability to provide detail, control (and not blur) images, and also generate significantly stronger, more propulsive/controlled bass.

I did a little reading on your amp on sixmoons...i cannot guess whether they are providing sufficient control of your speakers or not. Two experiments for now...one on isolation and one on amplifcation. (Note: i tend to like upgrading to components that not only work for the existing system..but generally give me the open-ended ability to keep upgrading in a general direction (i tend to know where i am going)...without having to change that particular component for a while.)

1. Can you get a hold of a more powerful tube or Class A SS amp by any chance? Something (anything actually) with significantly higher current capability...forget its midrange ability for the moment...just want to see what happens to your bass if you stick something powerful in. If you love it, then that's a good place to start where you might be able to keep your speakers. If its still muddy, then it's step 2 or you may, as Keith/Purite suggest, be looking for different speakers. I like Vitus, Gryphon, the old Forte, Pass...heck since this is not (yet) about finding the perfect bass-strong amp that keeps your glorious mids...its just about seeing if your speakers are capable with supreme power of delivery the quality of bass you are looking for...get a Bryston or Krell.

2. Can you get a hold of Entreq Vibb Eaters, HRS or Artesania mass damping plates? I am just curious what happens if you really mass damp the top of your speakers...that should improve bass propulsiveness and power...but i am curious if it will be enough and take you in the right direction.

With these two, you probably learn a bit about your own speaker and what they are capable of...and you might also start to gather more insights into electronics that you might wish to try.

I did have a friends Lavardin IS Reference round for a short while, sounded quite nice but felt that the bass was a little too dry, Ive asked him to bring it round again so I can have another go with it

I may ask round in the UK to see if I can borrow a more powerful SS amp, another friend who lives close has a pair of Michell Alecto mono block amplifiers which he is not using, so may be another option

I will also look into the speaker damping systems that you have mentioned

Many thanks again

Lee

 

[LL21]

I did have a friends Lavardin IS Reference round for a short while, sounded quite nice but felt that the bass was a little too dry, Ive asked him to bring it round again so I can have another go with it

I may ask round in the UK to see if I can borrow a more powerful SS amp, another friend who lives close has a pair of Michell Alecto mono block amplifiers which he is not using, so may be another option

I will also look into the speaker damping systems that you have mentioned

Many thanks again

Lee

Hi...talk to Fraser at Kog Audio. He has both Vitus and Entreq Vibb eaters for mass damping. Both are excellent. (He also has Ultra 5s but i am not convinced that applies here unless perhaps under your existing amps). Ask Fraser...he is very good at helping you select a few options and then evaluate from there til you find what you are looking for.

 

[LL21]

I did have a friends Lavardin IS Reference round for a short while, sounded quite nice but felt that the bass was a little too dry, Ive asked him to bring it round again so I can have another go with it

I may ask round in the UK to see if I can borrow a more powerful SS amp, another friend who lives close has a pair of Michell Alecto mono block amplifiers which he is not using, so may be another option...

Sounds good...again, not so much to determine if either of these is an amp for you...only to find out how much tight, propulsive bass your speaker may be capable of producing and seeing that works for you. Once you've put a powerful amp behind it, if it still aint enough, well...then your direction may be more about the speakers then the amp. If you are blown away by the bass and love it, then you can focus on electronics that may help you get what you are looking for out of your existing speakers...good luck and look forward to hearing how you get on.

 

[Barry2013]

Hi...talk to Fraser at Kog Audio. He has both Vitus and Entreq Vibb eaters for mass damping. Both are excellent. (He also has Ultra 5s but i am not convinced that applies here unless perhaps under your existing amps). Ask Fraser...he is very good at helping you select a few options and then evaluate from there til you find what you are looking for.

+1

 

[bonzo75]

If you really want to take your experience to the next level I will stay away from grounding etc for now. These are things to be done after your system is in place. Right now I will suggest visiting other people in the UK to see what makes your jaw drop. Visit some AN members (there are plenty), and visit some with a drastically different style of speakers that you have not heard before. Don't try to incrementally improve your system for now else you will be forever upgrading every 6 months. I don't know what music you are into, but if you are into classical, you might want to try out some multichannel systems (which most people dismiss to be for watching Avengers and Batman but which usually blow away any high end stereo system).

You can always keep demoing things in your current system, like different amps etc, but don't buy. These will make marginally less difference and you will be forever anchored by your current experience, you will hardly get a feeling of what's the next level.

 

[Atmasphere]

Just a thought here but here goes: If you have an EL34 based amp right now it must be making at least 30 watts at the least. You will be hard pressed to find an SET that can make that kind of power and actually play the bass better at the same time. The physics of SET output transformers works against you when you try to get more power- it becomes progressively harder to get real bandwidth.

IMO what you actually need might be more power, but you've not commented yet on whether or not you ever clip (overload) your amplifier. If not, then its all about finesse.

Another point: if your amplifier is a stereo unit instead of a pair of monoblocks, the additional length of speaker cable could be affecting your bass. Its a lot easier to get tubes to play bass if the speaker cables are kept as short as possible. Also, check to see how tight the speaker connectors are on the back of the speakers and the amp. Finger-tight does not cut it IME- and while you don't want to over-tighten because of damage to the connectors, it is a good idea to use a tool to make sure the speaker connections are good and tight.

 

[Joel]

Another interesting solid state option could be the small integrated SPEC amp RSA717. Nicely built, class D efficient, triode-like sound, amazing control of bass, impressively dynamic, and sweet trebles... The best 60 W in class D I have ever experienced.

 

[LL21]

Just a thought here but here goes: If you have an EL34 based amp right now it must be making at least 30 watts at the least. You will be hard pressed to find an SET that can make that kind of power and actually play the bass better at the same time. The physics of SET output transformers works against you when you try to get more power- it becomes progressively harder to get real bandwidth.

IMO what you actually need might be more power, but you've not commented yet on whether or not you ever clip (overload) your amplifier. If not, then its all about finesse.

Another point: if your amplifier is a stereo unit instead of a pair of monoblocks, the additional length of speaker cable could be affecting your bass. Its a lot easier to get tubes to play bass if the speaker cables are kept as short as possible. Also, check to see how tight the speaker connectors are on the back of the speakers and the amp. Finger-tight does not cut it IME- and while you don't want to over-tighten because of damage to the connectors, it is a good idea to use a tool to make sure the speaker connections are good and tight.

Most interesting...i was going to recommend monoblocking his EL34s if he can find another one. I nearly did that with my CJ MV60s years ago...big 'bang for buck' i thought at the time.

In any event, i was particularly intrigued to read about tightening the binding posts...i discovered that in an article by Martin Colloms only recently. I tried it and it worked...subtle but there. And every once in a while since then, when i feel like signal density is just a teeny bit off...i go back to check and sometimes the binding post turns just a bit...and the 'signal density' comes back.

Why is that?

 

[Joel]

I only had the opportunity to listen at home to 777 and V1.
My opinion is that the entry line gives a lot for the price asked, almost a stunning performance for a class d switching power supply amp. Other SPEC integrated amps use linear power supply.
Interested in your feedback about F33.

 

[Joel]

Joel Hi, I completely agree, a lot of amp for the asking price, have you tried the Bakoon amps they are really cute little amps too, I have their AMP51 prototype here at the moment and it is super,really superb.
Keith.

In fact, they are nice amps too, but low-powered stuff.
Is the amp51 prototype a more powerful version of amp31 ?

Best,

Joël

 

[Lee Henley]

Just a little update, I had a fried come round on thursday with a couple of amps to have a listen too, one SS and a pair on mono blocks which were valve EL84 with ECC 83 drivers, a few quick notes of the experience;

SS amp was a Resolution audio Catanta C50 which was 50 watts, in al honesty this did not gell with the speakers at al, the sound was very flat and very boring, the bass was not good either

The valve amps which were rated at 15 watts and at the moment there is no info on the internet about these, they are manufactured I believe in Poland, al I can say is that they performed fantastic, the bass and the mid range was just fantastic, the tonal balance to the soundstage was incredible, the UK rep on these is £5000 and could eel be amp to consider for me

Tomorrow I am going to have an audition with a friends 300B SE 9 watt amplifier, to see how the speakers go with the even less power, Im beginning to believe that the Audio Note speakers do prefer less power and this is where they perform at their best, lets see what tomorrow brings

As for the SPEC amps they do look an interesting amplifier and one for sure that Keith at Purite audio has high regard for, it could be another option to try out

Lee

 

[Joel]

This is the Korean Bakoon AMP 51 prototype,

Sorry Lee didn't mean to take your thread off course, sometimes products with a flat Fr can sound a little boring, but in time you appreciate their even handedness ,I have never been particularly fond of valves ( after a rather unfortunate introduction to the genre) and have always used fairly low powered Solid state amps with my horns, which are like your AN's pretty sensitive.
Keith.

Thanks Keith.
The Bakoon amp31 only powered 15 watt if I remember well, that is a quite short for my speakers anyway.
The SPEC with 60 healthy watts @ 8 ohms is rather capable to drive difficult loads.
For instance driving my Vivid Giya G1 :



From the valve side, I just have for review this nice and really new device from Italian manufacturer Angström Research (100 W output, EL34 push-pull design). It really sounds impressive.