Latest krell saga

[mep]

Thanks guys. I asked this before and no one ever answered so I assume know one has owned this combo or heard this combo, and that is dual KBL preamps. The KBL was designed so that it could be used as a fully balanced dual mono preamp in conjuction with owning a second KBL preamp. There are switches inside that you flip that convert it into a fully balanced mono preamp. It just makes you wonder what that setup would sound like. That would have made it a $9K preamp back in the day when $9K really meant something.

 

[RBFC]

I found the single KBL to be an excellent preamp. I didn't own duals, though. When I went from 2 stereo amps to 4 Krell monoblocks to power my big Apogees, the difference was staggering. If you set up an all-mono signal path, I'd imagine it would kick up the performance substantially. Steve's Lamm preamp is a dual-mono design. Perhaps he can offer some thoughts. He went from a tremendous ARC Ref preamp to the Lamm.

Lee

 

[microstrip]

The Audio Research Anniversary is also a dual mono unit, with independent power supplies for left and right channels. The conrad johnson ART was also a dual mono unit. One good thing about these preampliifiers is that their volume controls of both channels are synchronized and could use a remote., you do not have to make individual adjustments.

As they do not have equivalents with shared power supplies we can not say if their excellent sound stage is due to the separate power supplies.

 

[Gregadd]

There is such a thing as a "lemon." I never owned a Krell but have listend to a lot of them. Never heard one hum.

Rent a copy of the "Money Pit." Cut your losses.

 

[KeithR]

I agree with greg- i would move right along. Stop trying to fix bad sound.

Imo krell preamps are far weaker than their amps. Arc sounds like ss, so maybe that is a decent alternative. Cary preamps work very well with krell in my experience- a popular andy singer combo back in the day. Krell high input impedance is a plus.

 

[andromedaaudio]

I know from the martin collumns reviews ARC /Krell being his favourite , so it should be good
Don t forget CAT
Which brings me to Lamm with krell wouldnt it be a nice neutral presentation , anyone tried ???

 

[microstrip]

Although I have no proof of it, when I listen to some electronics of some time period, I found it has a sonic stamp of flavor of its period - may be due to the typical speakers that were used at that time to voice it, technology used at that time or just a design fashion of that time .

IMHO, curiously, usually the units of the same period from the same or different manufacturers seem to blend better - it is why I suggested the top preamplifiers of similar vintage as the KSA250. Using more recent preamplifiers, less colored and more transparent will expose the weakness of that amplifier and will not drive it fully to its best. The old cj premier 9 was perfect to the older Krell powers - its typical coloration and alive sound matched it perfectly.

AFAIK Martin Colloms liked a lot using the ARC REF3 with the Krell FPB series - much more recent units.

 

[LL21]

Although I have no proof of it, when I listen to some electronics of some time period, I found it has a sonic stamp of flavor of its period - may be due to the typical speakers that were used at that time to voice it, technology used at that time or just a design fashion of that time .

IMHO, curiously, usually the units of the same period from the same or different manufacturers seem to blend better - it is why I suggested the top preamplifiers of similar vintage as the KSA250. Using more recent preamplifiers, less colored and more transparent will expose the weakness of that amplifier and will not drive it fully to its best. The old cj premier 9 was perfect to the older Krell powers - its typical coloration and alive sound matched it perfectly.

AFAIK Martin Colloms liked a lot using the ARC REF3 with the Krell FPB series - much more recent units.

Interesting observation...and one that makes sense to me. My Transp Ref cables are similar vintage to my Wilson X1/Grand Slamms...have just agreed a trade of all of my old ACT 2/Antileon for cash back, plus Transp Ref XLMM2 speaker cables (mainly because i need 15' cables now instead of 8'...not because of sound as i enjoy my 10-yr old cables). At the same time, it has occured to me that these older cables might have been the ones used in 'voicing' the big Wilson...i wonder how the XLMM2 will work. stay tuned...

 

[MarinJim]

Interesting observation...and one that makes sense to me. My Transp Ref cables are similar vintage to my Wilson X1/Grand Slamms...have just agreed a trade of all of my old ACT 2/Antileon for cash back, plus Transp Ref XLMM2 speaker cables (mainly because i need 15' cables now instead of 8'...not because of sound as i enjoy my 10-yr old cables). At the same time, it has occured to me that these older cables might have been the ones used in 'voicing' the big Wilson...i wonder how the XLMM2 will work. stay tuned...

When you first put your system together, did you invite Thomas Edison over for a listen?

 

[LL21]

When you first put your system together, did you invite Thomas Edison over for a listen?

"Watson. Come here. I need you." You'd be amazed at how much bass there was when he said this through my system!

...oops that's Alexander Graham Bell...oh well.

 

[mep]

I agree with greg- i would move right along. Stop trying to fix bad sound.

Imo krell preamps are far weaker than their amps. Arc sounds like ss, so maybe that is a decent alternative. Cary preamps work very well with krell in my experience- a popular andy singer combo back in the day. Krell high input impedance is a plus.

Bad sound? Really? Please explain that to me.

 

[KeithR]

Bad sound? Really? Please explain that to me.

The dark, rolled off sound that has bothered you for a really long time.

There are plenty of worthy alternatives out there. Perhaps an older Rowland since you like a warmer sound (model 10?)

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

It's a bit hard to sort out, Mark. You have complained of noise and FR and said they sound great. I've wondered if it is the result of how badly you want them to sound great.

Tim

 

[mep]

Yeah, I get confused too. Last weekend the hum was very low in level and the noise floor was was pretty damn low as a result and the system sounded really, really good. The preamp is working perfectly for the here and now and the preamp has always been quiet. Does this system have the top-end extension that some of my other systems had? No. Does this system also do things that no other system I have owned ever did? Yes. The KSA-250 never sounds like you are getting anywhere close to it's limits. The bass and midbass are something to behold. I know why people could and did get addicted to this sound. It is smooth and beautiful sounding. And I haven't even mentioned the KPE Reference phono preamp.

I have already had someone from this forum offer to buy my KBL and KSA-250. I can tell you that you could spend much more and not have this quality of sound. I know because I have.

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

Well, regardless...good luck. I hope you find your bliss soon. This has to be pretty frustrating.

Tim

 

[mep]

Thanks Tim. I appreciate that.

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

I couldn't talk you into some active monitors and....nah, thought not.

Tim

 

[KeithR]

I know why people could and did get addicted to this sound.

Telling statement here as you left yourself out of it. Good luck in your soul searching.

I had something similar happen to me with an ARC preamp a year or two ago. I was amazed how happy I was the day after I sold it.

 

[microstrip]

Telling statement here as you left yourself out of it. Good luck in your soul searching.

I had something similar happen to me with an ARC preamp a year or two ago. I was amazed how happy I was the day after I sold it.

The proper moment for the commercial about synergy - you can have a piece with very good specifications, but if there is no synergy between it and your system (and you), there is no listening pleasure - as KeithR wisely says, the only remaining true pleasure is seeing it going out ...

 

[Gregadd]

It's similar to the woman with the husband who batters her and she will not leave him" No one knows him like I do." True enough.