Koetsu Coralstone

[rockitman]

Does anyone have the specs of the Koetsu Coralstone platinum diamond cartridge available? Somehow I cannot find it at home and on the internet I can only find the specs of the Coralstone with the boron cantilever.

There is no difference between the standard published spec for boron and diamond cantilevers. Everything is the same...motor, output voltage, impedance, ect. Just different cantilever material which does not have a measurement spec value associated with it.

 

[Audiocrack]

Hi AC, As far as I know, aside from cartridge weight the electrical specs should be the same as any other Platinum Diamond Koetsu.

Thanks much, Jack, appreciated.

 

[Audiocrack]

There is no difference between the standard published spec for boron and diamond cantilevers. Everything is the same...motor, output voltage, impedance, ect. Just different cantilever material which does not have a measurement spec value associated with it.

I thought so but I was not sure. So many thanks Christian!

 

[gian60]

My friend had both Coralstone and Coralstone diamond that sold to me like new,and testing together the output level and impedance on phono were exactly same
For the sound found little magic,natural and with little more aire the diamond

 

[bonzo75]

My friend had both Coralstone and Coralstone diamond that sold to me like new,and testing together the output level and impedance on phono were exactly same
For the sound found little magic,natural and with little more aire the diamond

Wow you have both?

 

[Audiocrack]

My friend had both Coralstone and Coralstone diamond that sold to me like new,and testing together the output level and impedance on phono were exactly same
For the sound found little magic,natural and with little more aire the diamond

Thanks. Do I understand you correctly that you prefer the diamond version to the boron version? I have never compared the two and just bought the platinum diamond because I had the feeling I might prefer that one to the boron version.

 

[rockitman]

Thanks. Do I understand you correctly that you prefer the diamond version to the boron version? I have never compared the two and just bought the platinum diamond because I had the feeling I might prefer that one to the boron version.

Syntax has a lot of Koetsu diamond cantilever experience on his Koetsu Stones. He said diamond sounds significantly better. I have yet to mount either of my freshly rebuilt Coralstones...one boron, one diamond.

 

[Audiocrack]

Syntax has a lot of Koetsu diamond cantilever experience on his Koetsu Stones. He said diamond sounds significantly better. I have yet to mount either of my freshly rebuilt Coralstones...one boron, one diamond.

Very interesting. Please keep us posted on on your experiences because I suppose you are (also) going to compare the two versions. Was there a specific reason, Christian, why you opted for two Coralstones with different cantilevers? Apparently you are in love with the Coralstone (I am as well) but there are so many other top cartridges available. For example I am (still) in love with my Lyra Olympos cartridge and I have heard from a friend that his Air Tight Opus cartridge is (also) stunning (have not heard the latter myself).

 

[JackD201]

Thanks. Do I understand you correctly that you prefer the diamond version to the boron version? I have never compared the two and just bought the platinum diamond because I had the feeling I might prefer that one to the boron version.

I think that with a system such as yours the magic Gian speaks of will definitely shine through in a big way. There's a vividness that is very beguiling. For me the diamonds just suck you in in a special way that pushes aside technical thinking. We've all spent more on other parts of our system to help us achieve just that. To me that makes the diamonds almost a bargain. I would love to hear what Transfiguration and Zyx have done with their own diamond cantilevers but alas, I've already got too many carts still in their boxes at the moment.

Christian, you are not alone in hoarder land LOL

 

[Audiocrack]

I think that with a system such as yours the magic Gian speaks of will definitely shine through in a big way. There's a vividness that is very beguiling. For me the diamonds just suck you in in a special way that pushes aside technical thinking. We've all spent more on other parts of our system to help us achieve just that. To me that makes the diamonds almost a bargain. I would love to hear what Transfiguration and Zyx have done with their own diamond cantilevers but alas, I've already got too many carts still in their boxes at the moment.

Christian, you are not alone in hoarder land LOL

Thanks Jack. So if I understand you correctly you have (also) compared the Coralstone diamond and boron cantilevers? Is it possible to describe the differences between the two? Just curious because I have never heard the latter.

At the time I bought the Coralstone diamond I did not know that I would buy the Tidal LA’s with their special (and to my ears magical sounding) diamond tweeters and diamond midrange woofers. So I suppose I am very lucky that I can combine these diamond units with the the Coralstone diamond cartridge. That said I have not yet heard this combination because it has been a (big) struggle to get the LA system perform to its real possibilities. Miguel of Tripoint Audio has been crucial in this regard with inter alia upgrading the Tripoint Emperor to mk ii status.

Anyway, I hope to be able to hear the Koetsu Coralstone diamond with my Forsell airbearing turntable somewhere in the future in combination with the Tidal LA’s, Kondo amplification and the various Tripoint components.

 

[Audiocrack]

I think that with a system such as yours the magic Gian speaks of will definitely shine through in a big way. There's a vividness that is very beguiling. For me the diamonds just suck you in in a special way that pushes aside technical thinking. We've all spent more on other parts of our system to help us achieve just that. To me that makes the diamonds almost a bargain. I would love to hear what Transfiguration and Zyx have done with their own diamond cantilevers but alas, I've already got too many carts still in their boxes at the moment.

Christian, you are not alone in hoarder land LOL

Btw, I suppose I have joined you in ‘castridge hoarder land’ with the Koetsu Coralstone diamond, Lyra Olympos, Lyra Atlas, Kondo IO-M and the DaVinci Audio Labs Grandezza cartridges. I suppose we are somewhat ‘mad’ in this regard.

Ps my wife thinks my ‘madness’ is not limited to cartridges

 

[rockitman]

I think that with a system such as yours the magic Gian speaks of will definitely shine through in a big way. There's a vividness that is very beguiling. For me the diamonds just suck you in in a special way that pushes aside technical thinking. We've all spent more on other parts of our system to help us achieve just that. To me that makes the diamonds almost a bargain. I would love to hear what Transfiguration and Zyx have done with their own diamond cantilevers but alas, I've already got too many carts still in their boxes at the moment.

Christian, you are not alone in hoarder land LOL

Jack,

if having two freshly rebuilt Coralstones...one boron, one diamond still in boxes....I am guilty as charged. I will be mounting the diamond soon though. I should probably start breaking it in on the AF1 awaiting the arrival of the American Sound in early December. I also have two Ortofon A90's..one still NIB and a Benz_Micro SLR I haven't tried yet.

 

[Ron Resnick]

I have a question, but I'm not exactly sure how to formulate it. But it is something like: does the greater neutrality and maybe transparency of the diamond cantilever detract in any way from the Koetsu "midrange magic"?

 

[DaveyF]

That should not be an issue so long as the "midrange magic" is in fact an accurate representation of the midrange on the recording. The more neutral the transducer, the more accurate the midrange should be. OTOH, if the "midrange magic" is in fact a coloration, albeit a pleasing coloration, then sure...a more accurate cartridge could impact that aspect. I would think that one would want a more accurate representation of the recording, at least IMHO.

 

[jadis]

I have a question, but I'm not exactly sure how to formulate it. But it is something like: does the greater neutrality and maybe transparency of the diamond cantilever detract in any way from the Koetsu "midrange magic"?

As a long time fan of Koetsu back in the 80s to being the country distributor in the mid 2000s, and having heard the original Sugano Black to the stone models, I should say that that question of Ron is not easy to answer. The 'old generation Koetsu were famous for the so called midrange magic. I got to hear some of my more experienced audio friends say that all they cared about was the way Koetsu sound in the mid and didn't care less about the rest. Because the truth of the matter then was that the older Koetsu were regarded as being rolled off in the highs, and a bit tubby in the bass. But the mid was just so lush and full of body, and very pleasing to the ears, specially when playing female vocals material. I for one was smitten or maybe hypnotized by the midrange magic that I used the original Black for 8 years. And then I applied for the country dealership and brought in just about the entire model line, including those with the premium diamond cantilever option.

With the new generation of Koetsus, the bodies have physical differences, although small, from shorter body lengths for the Rosewood to some minute bevel edges on the Black model. The Urushi coated bodies are now looking glorious with their new Wajima model, added to the Black Tsugaru and the Red Vermillion. The stone bodies are so beautiful I just needed them to stay in their boxes and stare at them over bright light with the top cover opened. I personally took a Rosewood Signature to own while selling the others. I sold 99% of the model lines without having any audition by my buyer friends. That to me, spoke about the 'Koetsu Magic', not just the midrange magic. To me, clearly, the new generation Koetsus do not have the rolled off highs and tubby bass anymore, but still, have the Koetsu midrange magic. I tested most models briefly in my system just to make sure they work before a delivery. So I got to get brief impressions of each model I heard. I can say that in all the models I tested, no 2 models sounded exactly the same, which is not surprising. There are differences in soundstage, air, refinement, tightness of bass, and other areas of consideration, and my own grouping divided the models into 2, and the border was drawn at the non-platinum models to the platinum ones. To add the icing on the cake, so to speak, the platinum ones had the option of being fitted with diamond cantilevers, at that time a $3000 add on - which was the cost of a Rosewood cartridge already. And now to finally address the question of Ron if the greater neutrality and transparency detract from the Koetsu magic, my answer is no. Amazingly, the midrange magic is always there in any models, but the difference is smaller among the stone body models, with the diamond cantilever models showing the 'best' of the Koetsu sound in that it gives out the best in mirco-detailing, speed, transients, soundstage space and air, finesse in the highs and though bass may not be the best compared with other top cartridges, the Koetsu midrange magic is still there, although compared say with the Rosewood Signature or the Urushi, it may not be as 'highlighted' in terms of a fuller bodied and lusher presentation. This is the best I can put the experience into words, but the best thing is to listen to them.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Thank you, Phil!

And would you say that the stone body cartridges with boron cantilevers are between the RSP and the stone body diamonds on the highlighting of midrange and full-bodied continuum?

 

[jadis]

Thank you, Phil!

And would you say that the stone body cartridges with boron cantilevers are between the RSP and the stone body diamonds on the highlighting of midrange and full-bodied continuum?

My pleasure, Ron. And yes, I would say just that, in between.

 

[Tango]

I am listening to jazz vocal with the Coralstone platinum at the moment. People say so much about the midrange magic of Koetsu. I have never heard the Koetsu of the old day or have extensive experience with this brand like Phil. But what I am hearing from the Coralstone isnt just the midrange magic we mostly emphasize. It is really a top notch cart in other aspects as well. It is so very transparent. The highs are really good no rolloff although doesnt extend like Atlas SL. Maybe my SL set up was not optimum but my Coralstone setup is also quieter than the SL (they were both on the same arm). Talk about details, give me one record that you can hear more from the groove that I dont hear from my Coralstone and I will give this Coral to you for free. The sound stage is also very wide and nicely layered. Spatial info it gives also make you easily feel the venue of the recording. The music just plays beautifully. This cart is also very quick not boring at all. What I dont get is the tight quick bass and bass slam like Atlas. To be honest, what I hear from the first week putting it on is far behind a good impression I have now. So midrange magic? Combine other strengths I mentioned into one whole package, I think the midrange magic is a little overrated.

Kind regards,
Tang

 

[JackD201]

What Phil said

To me, its a relative thing. According to my friends who got into high end analog earlier than I, the Koetsus were a godsend since not many makers were able to deal with the ringing of MCs at the time. Later however the rolled off nature went from blessing to liability. My first Koetsu was an Urushi Black. Beautiful piece with the gold flecks. I liked it but got the chance to get a Koetsu Jade Platinum from Mullard88 who was running out of space on his cartridge rack Before I sold the Urushi (which I regret but funds were tight) I compared them on my then HRX with Phantom I arm on identical wands. In direct comparison I felt the Urushi was too thick in the lower midrange by comparison and not as extended. This thickness at least in my set up had less impact on kick drums. The system sounded a bit underdamped. It also made Pavarotti sound a bit like Domingo and Domingo even more Baritone like. On the positive side, it made 80's recordings flush with gated compressor'd drum kits (It's your fault Phil Collins!) sound less dry.

In any any case, I always thought Koetsu's "magic" resides in the upper midrange where female vocal, violin, viola and cello harmonic sustains live. Magic happens when certain notes are hit and you know it when it feels like your soul is being pulled out through your solar plexus area LOL Yeah all of you know what I mean! LOL In our native language we have a term applied to music called "Hugot" which literally translated is "to draw emotion from within". I think all Koetsus have this quality.

 

[jadis]

Talk about details, give me one record that you can hear more from the groove that I dont hear from my Coralstone and I will give this Coral to you for free. The sound stage is also very wide and nicely layered. Spatial info it gives also make you easily feel the venue of the recording. The music just plays beautifully. This cart is also very quick not boring at all.

Kind regards,
Tang

I have heard the traits that you described, Tang. It's quite a 'total-package' sort of thing.