Jay's Audio CDT2-MkII CD Transport listening impressions

[matthias]

Hi. What was better about the sound? I have the Jay's, which I think is incredibly good. However, if the less expensive Avator is better, I would likely go down the same route you did
Henri

Henri,
I asked the same question on AS. Here is the answer:

https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/...nator-goes-plus/?tab=comments#comment-1064864

Matt

 

[lordcloud]

Henri,
I asked the same question on AS. Here is the answer:

https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/...nator-goes-plus/?tab=comments#comment-1064864

Matt

Thanks Matt!

 

[matthias]

Thanks Matt!

Welcome,
the German importer did a modification for the Avatar:

Matt

 

[richard_crl032]

Hi. What was better about the sound? I have the Jay's, which I think is incredibly good. However, if the less expensive Avator is better, I would likely go down the same route you did

Henri

Hi Hendri,

The Avatar is more engaging somehow even with the standard Terminator .. not too articulate with audiophile terms but will try and it is ymmv as usual.

With the Terminator Plus (TP), music just "pops" and more dense which is further enhances this engagement. By itself, the TP tightened well known bass of standard Terminator and provides more PRAT and it is very quiet.

Technically, Jay's did not have a chance with Avator being synced to the ocxo clock of the TP and the numerous i2S outputs as well as expected matching of own Denafrips products.

More expensive but do not miss the Jay cdt2 with Avatar as a Terminator and now TP owner.

Cheers.

Richard

 

[SeagoatLeo]

I'm not sure if it's a matter of the unit continuing to break in, or if my ears are just acclimating to the sound - and certainly a couple minor tweaks to my room have helped (more on that in a second), but this transport continues to impress. I'm having one of the few local audio guys I know come over tomorrow to take a listen, so I'm interested to hear what he thinks, but I'm just hearing a very musical, very muscular and natural sounding player. I can hardly find fault with it. The only, single thing I don't love is that if you hit Play after pausing a song, it starts the song over instead of resuming from the paused position. That's it. And I've adapted, so that's that.

More on the room tweak - this player, on full orchestral recordings is giving me a window into the performance that is letting me know a few things:

I have some area for improvement, I think in the area of properly matching cabling to equipment. I'll get to that in 2019, I hope, and it will mostly involve power cabling and stabilizer platforms and such, tweaks if you will.
I should not discount my small room. It does not sound small and the Jay's is helping me make it sound larger
The way this happened is I was listening to a James Horner score last night and a few things stuck out to me. One, is that my image was skewed a little - recessed on the left, a little forward on the right and almost at a downward angle if that sounds descriptive enough. You can imagine my surprise and my happiness at finding this because it's a level of resolution - without sacrificing musicality - that is a little foreign to me.
I worked with the left speaker, literally moving it around in an area not bigger than a small envelope. And once I found the spot the system basically snapped into 3D mode. I was already thrilled, and I need to verify this on more recordings, but while the volume didn't change, the room just burst to life. It was probably the coolest 1.5" move I've ever heard, haha. But it worked, in any case.
The soundstage now feels centered and flat (in both planes).

And the bass. It is absolutely addicting. Not sure if it's the Jays, or the Yggdrasil A2, or the DH Labs cable, or some synergy among all three, but the bass is thick and fast and lifelike and it has undulations in it and it can change depth in the soundstage - it's amazing. And that is where I always focus the most attention since it's the foundation of the music I love, so this is all just a little too cool for me.

So anywho, if you can't tell, I'm really enjoying my time with this deck (and the DAC, for that matter). The DAC is resolving enough to "show" all this stuff yet still keep a frenetic pace and intoxicating energy to the music. I know it's no Aries Cerat or what have you, but for my budget I honestly don't think I could be happier.

Hope this helps.

The pause problem will be a problem for me as I often listen to classical music which has long movements, often 20 minutes each. This would mean I would have to look at the time on the unit (or does the pause show the time), remember it and fast forward to that time again. Is the fast forward very fast or relatively slow? Does the unit have a fast or slow reverse button, giving an alternative return to the paused location. Does it have a total disc time, number of tracks and track remaining features? Thanks since I am probably going to purchase the unit unless it is difficult to use. My EAR Acute has all of these features.

 

[montesquieu]

Something of a delayed mini-‘review’ here, unfortunately a family bereavement meant that much of the summer just disappeared on me. But life is returning to normal somewhat, and this experience is really something I had better write about.

Not quite sure this thread is the best location for it but given it’s been a place for discussion of the Jays Audio CDT2, it’s probably appropriate.

Up till this summer, I ran an Audio Note CDT2/II transport for over 10 years. But a major DAC overhaul about two and a half years ago (just before Covid struck) left me thinking I needed a transport upgrade as well. I was aware that Audio Note have been planning to release a belt drive transport, also to be provided as a retro-fittable upgrade to owners of Phillps CD Pro 2LF-equipped transports, such as my CDT2/II. But this seems to have got stuck in the mud – not sure whether the issue is reliability, or troubles with productionising the necessary elements, but it’s been repeatedly pushed back for a couple of years now. In the end, I gave up on it and started looking at other options.

First up was a CEC TL1N, freshly refurbed from a trip back to CEC in Japan. Given the still chunky price tag even at its age, this was a crushing disappointment, lacking the purity and solidity of the Audio Note. I later tried out the CEC TL2N – a much later, current, model. This was much better, but still not a worthwhile improvement on the venerable Audio Note, albeit worthy of consideration if I didn’t already own a machine of similar capability. So also was returned. Back to head-scratching.

Then a quite reasonably-priced Jay’s Audio CDT2 Mk 3 popped up, being sold by an old acquaintance. Relatively cheap compared to the CEC boxes, it seemed (from other threads) to play way above its price point, and also to have a lot of modding potential. I went for it.

First impressions weren’t great – it didn’t like my balanced mains unit, and the result was pretty underwhelming. But with this out of the loop, pretty much out of the box it was the equal of the Audio Note, which I must say surprised me. Clarity, detail, richness of timbre, decent timing – all there. Also interesting to see a vintage swinging-arm transport – a Phillips CDM4 – in there – something I always associated with musicality over more clinical considerations. It came with a spare transport too, all prepped and ready for dropping in. Given I’m mainly a viny guy though, I’m pretty certain the original one will see me out. Great to have it tucked away for emergencies though.

So the Audio Note was sold, and thoughts turned to tuning the Jay’s. I was vaguely aware of a replacement puck being available, replacing the Jay’s rubber-backed, carbon fibre version with something seemingly made of a bone-like substance. It turned out another hifi acquaintance in the UK had bought one of these for his own Jays Audio CDT2. He brought it round. Quite honestly I was gobsmacked. Looking back at an email about it I read that I described the improvement as ‘both instant and quite dramatic’. I’m naturally quite sceptical about magical bolt-ons, especially if I can’t figure out the mechanism – how can a puck possibly make a difference in the digital domain? But there it was. My wife concurred: ‘No contest. Order one!’

So this brought me into contact with Mike Christ, of Headquarters Audio in Germany. Though I’ve only exchanged a few emails with him, it seems Mike has emerged, fully-formed as one of the hifi industry’s great one-offs – a true character that shows Germany can throw up passionate, engaging eccentrics just as well as the English can. (Full disclosure: I’m Scottish). He has a youtube channel that is definitely worth a look, and there you can hear about his philosophy, which seems mainly concerned with minimising damping in most circumstances, allowing natural vibration to occur.

So I duly ordered my own ‘QStab’ puck, as well as a suspension modification for the Jays Audio CDT2 made of similar material, complete with custom springs to match. Installation is a bit of an act of faith – while quick and straightforward, the original damping material all needs removing before the new bits can be fitted, meaning there’s no return to the status quo ante if you don’t like the result.

And the result? Dramatic doesn’t cover it. Confirmed by a visit from a couple of guys who have known my system very well over many years (both member here actually). I noted the words ‘insane’, ‘instant’, ‘dramatic’ and ’shocked’ – which kind of captures the mood. For the price, it’s a no-brainer for any CDT2 owner, and also any owner of a Denafrips Avatar, which uses the same CDM4 drive unit.

I did take a couple of youtube clips with my iPhone, I can hear the difference, but I know what I’m listening for .. hopefully may be useful to others too. Incidentally, I discovered in the process of ordering the Qstab that Mike also has a turntable mat and LP stabiliser in the works which applies similar principles to the analogue domain. Watch out for a write-upon that too.

Without QStab and suspension mod:

With Qstab and suspension mod:

 

[Petrat]

Having heard the effect of using the QStab puck on the Jay's at Tom's, all I can add is that the improvements aren't trivial and are wholly positive to my ears. Nice upgrade.

 

[Audiophile Bill]

Hi Tom,

Thanks for update. Any piccies of the transport itself close? I really preferred the modded video too - sounded much more natural to my ears - closer to the analogue ease of vinyl. Absence of a digital grain too.

 

[montesquieu]

Sure - here we go - first is an internal shot from when I was fitting the suspension mod, showing the new spacers and springs, with the old spacers sat in front. Rest are from ths morning. The plinth it's sitting on is a 'Hush' platform by Bob Cusworth which has internal suspension along the lines of the Townshend Seismic Pods.

 

[Audiophile Bill]

Sure - here we go - first is an internal shot from when I was fitting the suspension mod, showing the new spacers and springs, with the old spacers sat in front. Rest are from ths morning. The plinth it's sitting on is a 'Hush' platform by Bob Cusworth which has internal suspension along the lines of the Townshend Seismic Pods.


View attachment 97927 View attachment 97928 View attachment 97929 View attachment 97930 View attachment 97931 View attachment 97932

Looks superb. Enjoy.

 

[SeagoatLeo]

What is the result of upgrading the new CDT3-Mk3? I imagine it should substantially improve as well. Brilliant idea to float and/or isolate the transport from vibration. This was done back in the 80s and 90s as well to a very few CD players. Kyocera even used ceramics to isolate and a sapphire spindle.

 

[montesquieu]

What is the result of upgrading the new CDT3-Mk3? I imagine it should substantially improve as well. Brilliant idea to float and/or isolate the transport from vibration. This was done back in the 80s and 90s as well to a very few CD players. Kyocera even used ceramics to isolate and a sapphire spindle.

I haven't heard the Mk2 vs the Mk3 but as I understand it, the upgrade is a replacement PSU, available as a click-in retro-fit module to owners of the Mk2.

Sensible place to spend the money I think. Was already labelled something of a giant killer but with the Headquarters Audio mods it certainly falls into that category in my experience.

I'm curious to try the Jay's with a master clock/regenerator/reclocker device like the Denafrips Gaia or Mutec MC3+USB. Although I've previously owned the latter in between my my old Audio Note transport and my DAC ... while there was a difference, after a time it left doubt as to whether the change was a positive one in my setup. In the end I took it out and didn't miss it. Nevertheless I'd be keen to borrow one at some stage as an experiment, given the Jay's is quite a different beast.

EDIT: Just noted you were talking about the Jay's CDT3. While I believe the cases look similar it's an entirely different beast, with different transport (Phillips Pro2, like the Audio Note) and of course, very different PSU. I'm told it's better again (the chap who sold me the CDT2 Mk3 had just bought one) but I haven't heard it. I have a sneaky feeling though it won't be a straightforward win for the CDT3, the two transports have a different sound as I found with the Audio Note vs the Jays. I'm rather attached now to the CDM4 Also, I believe the CDT3 will only be made in limited numbers (and may even have reached that number already) as the transports are in very short supply worldwide. So no spare mechanism to salt away for the future. Having said that my Audio Note was still working flawlessly after more than 10 years.

 

[Shuggie]

I haven't heard the Mk2 vs the Mk3 but as I understand it, the upgrade is a replacement PSU, available as a click-in retro-fit module to owners of the Mk2.

Sensible place to spend the money I think. Was already labelled something of a giant killer but with the Headquarters Audio mods it certainly falls into that category in my experience.

I'm curious to try the Jay's with a master clock/regenerator/reclocker device like the Denafrips Gaia or Mutec MC3+USB. Although I've previously owned the latter in between my my old Audio Note transport and my DAC ... while there was a difference, after a time it left doubt as to whether the change was a positive one in my setup. In the end I took it out and didn't miss it. Nevertheless I'd be keen to borrow one at some stage as an experiment, given the Jay's is quite a different beast.

I'll bring my Denafrips Gaia over sometime so you can try this for yourself!

 

[montesquieu]

You'd be most welcome as always Hugo! Looking forward to it

 

[SeagoatLeo]

I haven't heard the Mk2 vs the Mk3 but as I understand it, the upgrade is a replacement PSU, available as a click-in retro-fit module to owners of the Mk2.

Sensible place to spend the money I think. Was already labelled something of a giant killer but with the Headquarters Audio mods it certainly falls into that category in my experience.

I'm curious to try the Jay's with a master clock/regenerator/reclocker device like the Denafrips Gaia or Mutec MC3+USB. Although I've previously owned the latter in between my my old Audio Note transport and my DAC ... while there was a difference, after a time it left doubt as to whether the change was a positive one in my setup. In the end I took it out and didn't miss it. Nevertheless I'd be keen to borrow one at some stage as an experiment, given the Jay's is quite a different beast.

EDIT: Just noted you were talking about the Jay's CDT3. While I believe the cases look similar it's an entirely different beast, with different transport (Phillips Pro2, like the Audio Note) and of course, very different PSU. I'm told it's better again (the chap who sold me the CDT2 Mk3 had just bought one) but I haven't heard it. I have a sneaky feeling though it won't be a straightforward win for the CDT3, the two transports have a different sound as I found with the Audio Note vs the Jays. I'm rather attached now to the CDM4 Also, I believe the CDT3 will only be made in limited numbers (and may even have reached that number already) as the transports are in very short supply worldwide. So no spare mechanism to salt away for the future. Having said that my Audio Note was still working flawlessly after more than 10 years.

You have brought up a very important topic-replacement for worn out transports. I have salted away the CDM 9s (3X) for my current unit but was very interested in the CDT3 until you brought up the lack of a replacement. I have 7,000 CDs and intend to listen to them for another 30 years, (should I live that long). I may have to go with the CDT2 instead and purchase a back up CDM4. My EAR Acute that I had for 16 years only required a new laser after 12,000 -15,000 hours. Amazing. I wonder how long the CDM4 lasts? P.S. My current transport has totally upgraded audio caps and regulators. I wonder if the Jay's Audio has just computer grade parts in it with a great design?

 

[westlower]

I have to say I am no CD fan, format is horrible for me, sound is obviously fantastic when all things align. But i just never got on with them, ended up in the car scratched to hell and don't get me started on the design of the Jewel case with those hinge tabs!!
Ripped all my CDs to storage files and got rid.

I am a regular at Tom's place and have heard his CD set up numerous times (although we generally indulge in Analogue on visits)
The new Jay's Audio transport was totally transformed from "yes that's really nice" to... "Wowza!! What have you just done to it? !"
the answer... Headquarters Audio puck. Well it's all news to me using a puck stabiliser on a CD
but i wouldn't have believed the transformation in presentation if I hadn't been in the room. It was nothing short of
totally different and for the better across the board. One of those rare audio moments that is pretty unbelievable.
I won't be indulging in the evil Silver discs though. 'Orible things

 

[jespera]

View attachment 97914 Something of a delayed mini-‘review’ here, unfortunately a family bereavement meant that much of the summer just disappeared on me. But life is returning to normal somewhat, and this experience is really something I had better write about.

Not quite sure this thread is the best location for it but given it’s been a place for discussion of the Jays Audio CDT2, it’s probably appropriate.

Up till this summer, I ran an Audio Note CDT2/II transport for over 10 years. But a major DAC overhaul about two and a half years ago (just before Covid struck) left me thinking I needed a transport upgrade as well. I was aware that Audio Note have been planning to release a belt drive transport, also to be provided as a retro-fittable upgrade to owners of Phillps CD Pro 2LF-equipped transports, such as my CDT2/II. But this seems to have got stuck in the mud – not sure whether the issue is reliability, or troubles with productionising the necessary elements, but it’s been repeatedly pushed back for a couple of years now. In the end, I gave up on it and started looking at other options.

First up was a CEC TL1N, freshly refurbed from a trip back to CEC in Japan. Given the still chunky price tag even at its age, this was a crushing disappointment, lacking the purity and solidity of the Audio Note. I later tried out the CEC TL2N – a much later, current, model. This was much better, but still not a worthwhile improvement on the venerable Audio Note, albeit worthy of consideration if I didn’t already own a machine of similar capability. So also was returned. Back to head-scratching.

Then a quite reasonably-priced Jay’s Audio CDT2 Mk 3 popped up, being sold by an old acquaintance. Relatively cheap compared to the CEC boxes, it seemed (from other threads) to play way above its price point, and also to have a lot of modding potential. I went for it.

First impressions weren’t great – it didn’t like my balanced mains unit, and the result was pretty underwhelming. But with this out of the loop, pretty much out of the box it was the equal of the Audio Note, which I must say surprised me. Clarity, detail, richness of timbre, decent timing – all there. Also interesting to see a vintage swinging-arm transport – a Phillips CDM4 – in there – something I always associated with musicality over more clinical considerations. It came with a spare transport too, all prepped and ready for dropping in. Given I’m mainly a viny guy though, I’m pretty certain the original one will see me out. Great to have it tucked away for emergencies though.

So the Audio Note was sold, and thoughts turned to tuning the Jay’s. I was vaguely aware of a replacement puck being available, replacing the Jay’s rubber-backed, carbon fibre version with something seemingly made of a bone-like substance. It turned out another hifi acquaintance in the UK had bought one of these for his own Jays Audio CDT2. He brought it round. Quite honestly I was gobsmacked. Looking back at an email about it I read that I described the improvement as ‘both instant and quite dramatic’. I’m naturally quite sceptical about magical bolt-ons, especially if I can’t figure out the mechanism – how can a puck possibly make a difference in the digital domain? But there it was. My wife concurred: ‘No contest. Order one!’

So this brought me into contact with Mike Christ, of Headquarters Audio in Germany. Though I’ve only exchanged a few emails with him, it seems Mike has emerged, fully-formed as one of the hifi industry’s great one-offs – a true character that shows Germany can throw up passionate, engaging eccentrics just as well as the English can. (Full disclosure: I’m Scottish). He has a youtube channel that is definitely worth a look, and there you can hear about his philosophy, which seems mainly concerned with minimising damping in most circumstances, allowing natural vibration to occur.

So I duly ordered my own ‘QStab’ puck, as well as a suspension modification for the Jays Audio CDT2 made of similar material, complete with custom springs to match. Installation is a bit of an act of faith – while quick and straightforward, the original damping material all needs removing before the new bits can be fitted, meaning there’s no return to the status quo ante if you don’t like the result.

And the result? Dramatic doesn’t cover it. Confirmed by a visit from a couple of guys who have known my system very well over many years (both member here actually). I noted the words ‘insane’, ‘instant’, ‘dramatic’ and ’shocked’ – which kind of captures the mood. For the price, it’s a no-brainer for any CDT2 owner, and also any owner of a Denafrips Avatar, which uses the same CDM4 drive unit.

I did take a couple of youtube clips with my iPhone, I can hear the difference, but I know what I’m listening for .. hopefully may be useful to others too. Incidentally, I discovered in the process of ordering the Qstab that Mike also has a turntable mat and LP stabiliser in the works which applies similar principles to the analogue domain. Watch out for a write-upon that too.

Without QStab and suspension mod:

With Qstab and suspension mod:

Remarkable!

 

[CKKeung]

A frd of mine bought one a few days ago.
He is very happy.

 

[jeromelang]

before playing any disc

shut down both transport and dac
power up tpt
load disc, let it read toc and settle
power up dac
play disc (don't use remote control)

 

[facten]

before playing any disc

shut down both transport and dac
power up tpt
load disc, let it read toc and settle
power up dac
play disc (don't use remote control)

Don't know if you are stating this with serious intent but if so why, what is it that is supposedly gained by doing this? And, you do this between each disc to be played during a session?