IS there an absolute sound?

[RogerD]

Hi Frank,

I like this quote from the link,

"This effortlessness sometimes shows up as a sort of ‘bloom’ on the sound. It’s inviting and contagious."

The best part of the equation is that you don't need to spend a fortune to acheive this level of performance.

 

[Robert]

Thanks for posting this;

http://getbettersound.com/roomplay-reference.html

That's about a good of explanation I have read. I'll just add 2 things,one,is clarity as a marker. Clarity can always improve and it is my main marker. The only problem is,hearing a break through for me was a recording. Not all recordings are equal. Another marker of mine is presence,experiencing it at a high level,like a Aeolian Skinner organ should drop your jaw not only in the majesty but also in it's beauty.

RogerD, I agree with you on clarity. By clarity, I am not talking about detail, but the absence of a 'haze' between you and the performers. Last year, I understood that this was a limitation of my system, and I actively sought to improve it. When sitting in front of an orchestra, there is this palpable and clear sense of energy. Removing the haze from your stereo is a major challenge. As they say, like cleaning or removing a window. As your signature quote indicates, we both understand this to be 'noise' and distortion. For me, the biggest factor for clarity was the quality of the power. And this led me to some unconventional choices regarding power cables and conditioning. As with many of these attributes, once you hear it, you are spoiled forever.

 

[fas42]

The best part of the equation is that you don't need to spend a fortune to acheive this level of performance.

Cheers, Roger. Yes, it's all about the approach taken, the attitude you have towards upgrading your system, to get better sound. The friend I've mentioned many times, early on was quite a bit into the "gear head" mode, as in "What should I buy next to improve the sound??". His understanding has now moved stronger and stronger into realising that he has the good sound already, that the right approach is to eliminate the problem areas holding back the achievable sound: he's now able to play both LP and CD at realistic, high level sound levels with excellent 'bloom' ...

Frank

 

[RogerD]

RogerD, I agree with you on clarity. By clarity, I am not talking about detail, but the absence of a 'haze' between you and the performers. Last year, I understood that this was a limitation of my system, and I actively sought to improve it. When sitting in front of an orchestra, there is this palpable and clear sense of energy. Removing the haze from your stereo is a major challenge. As they say, like cleaning or removing a window. As your signature quote indicates, we both understand this to be 'noise' and distortion. For me, the biggest factor for clarity was the quality of the power. And this led me to some unconventional choices regarding power cables and conditioning. As with many of these attributes, once you hear it, you are spoiled forever.

Right on Robert! Clarity as we both understand it, is a measure of how every part of the reproduced sound is portrayed. The power as it moves through the system leaves it's own signature (never good),the noise and distortion effects the whole and is a barrier to great sound.

And that high level of "clarity" opens up that "energy" you talk of,it might not be of the same degree,but it is a palpable part of the recording.

 

[RogerD]

Cheers, Roger. Yes, it's all about the approach taken, the attitude you have towards upgrading your system, to get better sound. The friend I've mentioned many times, early on was quite a bit into the "gear head" mode, as in "What should I buy next to improve the sound??". His understanding has now moved stronger and stronger into realising that he has the good sound already, that the right approach is to eliminate the problem areas holding back the achievable sound: he's now able to play both LP and CD at realistic, high level sound levels with excellent 'bloom' ...


Frank

I have had different amounts of bloom,in every system and room I have had. It is somewhat recording dependent,but all is so effortless,"out of thin air" and "everywhere" is the best way to describe it.

 

[fas42]

For me, the biggest factor for clarity was the quality of the power. And this led me to some unconventional choices regarding power cables and conditioning. As with many of these attributes, once you hear it, you are spoiled forever.

Excellent point, Robert. I've done a lot of work over the last year or so, trying different strategies and circuits for filtering the mains power, and there was a major movement forward in achieving good isolation from the deficiencies of the power supply. When you can get to the level of deliberately inducing high level sparking at a bad connection on the mains, and not hear any noise from the speakers then I would say you're in good shape.

Frank

 

[fas42]

I have had different amounts of bloom,in every system and room I have had. It is somewhat recording dependent,but all is so effortless,"out of thin air" and "everywhere" is the best way to describe it.

The good thing is that once you tune into it, that this 'bloom' is an excellent barometer of the system's health: as soon as it fades to any degree then you know you have a problem somewhere that needs to be resolved.

I would argue that the bloom is not so much recording dependent, but an excellent measuring stick for furthering a system's performance. My technique has been to take the "worst" recordings, the ones with seemingly the least bloom and always use those as a guide to furthering sound quality. I have never yet been disappointed with this approach; the most hopelessly "damaged" recordings have always been been coaxed to yield more, and sometimes, almost amazingly, are shown to be capable of immensely striking, in a positive sense, experiences.

Frank

 

[Steve Williams]

When you can get to the level of deliberately inducing high level sparking at a bad connection on the mains, and not hear any noise from the speakers then I would say you're in good shape.

That's the dumbest thing thing I think I've read in a long while. Tell me surely to goodness you're joking

 

[fas42]

That's the dumbest thing thing I think I've read in a long while. Tell me surely to goodness you're joking

Sorry to alarm you Steve! I've actually mentioned this sensitivity measuring "technique" before; no animals will be harmed in the process!!

Simply put, get a high power current draw happening on a relatively benign device -- I use a high powered incandescent light bulb in a floor fitting. Connect the fitting's plug to an extension cord which in turn is plugged into the same mains circuit as the audio system and switch on. So far, everything normal. Then pick up the connection between extension and fitting cords, and "pretend" you're having trouble plugging and unplugging it. The light flickering madly and the sound of sparking will tell you when you've got the right point. There's no danger, just that you'll get some pitting on the connecting contacts.

But the real point is that the (switched on but not playing) audio system will generally be the best indicator: it will frequently spray quite a cacophany of noises from the speakers into the room, as this extreme form of interference bypasses all the filtering mechanisms. If your setup is dead quiet doing this then the mains filtering is doing a good job ...

Frank

 

[Steve Williams]

Sorry to alarm you Steve! I've actually mentioned this sensitivity measuring "technique" before; no animals will be harmed in the process!!

Simply put, get a high power current draw happening on a relatively benign device -- I use a high powered incandescent light bulb in a floor fitting. Connect the fitting's plug to an extension cord which in turn is plugged into the same mains circuit as the audio system and switch on. So far, everything normal. Then pick up the connection between extension and fitting cords, and "pretend" you're having trouble plugging and unplugging it. The light flickering madly and the sound of sparking will tell you when you've got the right point. There's no danger, just that you'll get some pitting on the connecting contacts.

But the real point is that the (switched on but not playing) audio system will generally be the best indicator: it will frequently spray quite a cacophany of noises from the speakers into the room, as this extreme form of interference bypasses all the filtering mechanisms. If your setup is dead quiet doing this then the mains filtering is doing a good job ...

Frank

Frank

You make listening to music a chore rather than a pleasure.

 

[fas42]

Frank

You make listening to music a chore rather than a pleasure.

Steve, it's all about about getting the system right! Personally, if I spent say, weeks, months worrying about or playing with various audio cables, or agonising about the precise VTA needed to make a particular LP sound right, that would be a chore!

Once you have something like mains filtering sorted out the first time, then you shouldn't have to worry about it again ...

Frank

 

[NorthStar]

I like this thread! ... I'm having some nice smiles from the heart.

Abzolutely. :b

 

[fas42]

You're a zcream, Bob ...

Frank

 

[Steve Williams]

Steve, it's all about about getting the system right! Personally, if I spent say, weeks, months worrying about or playing with various audio cables, or agonising about the precise VTA needed to make a particular LP sound right, that would be a chore!

Once you have something like mains filtering sorted out the first time, then you shouldn't have to worry about it again ...

Frank

But it's taken25 years and you're not even close

 

[fas42]

But it's taken25 years and you're not even close

Well, I did take time out for about 12 years, and during this time I did just enjoy the music: I didn't expect much from the system and so I was never disallusioned ...

I'm afraid it's in my nature to want to know the answers, I'm not one to accept what is at any particular moment if I know, or think, that it could be better. I feel that I have made excellent progress, especially over the last couple of years, and that's what satisfies me. The friend I've mentioned many times has picked up the bug, my bug, and he's younger and has more energy than me. So if he picks up the baton, and continues beyond where I've got I'll be fine with that: as someone just said in another thread, sometimes it's all about planting the seed ...

Frank

 

[Robert]

Simply put, get a high power current draw happening on a relatively benign device -- I use a high powered incandescent light bulb in a floor fitting. Connect the fitting's plug to an extension cord which in turn is plugged into the same mains circuit as the audio system and switch on. So far, everything normal. Then pick up the connection between extension and fitting cords, and "pretend" you're having trouble plugging and unplugging it. The light flickering madly and the sound of sparking will tell you when you've got the right point. There's no danger, just that you'll get some pitting on the connecting contacts.
Frank

I suppose you can do that. But recently, I've found this to be a highly effective way of assessing the noise in the power:

http://petertakacsplaysbeethoven.com/

Really amazing stuff. Most highly recommended.

 

[fas42]

I suppose you can do that. But recently, I've found this to be a highly effective way of assessing the noise in the power:

http://petertakacsplaysbeethoven.com/

Really amazing stuff. Most highly recommended.

Thanks for the recommendation, Robert. But when I talked of noise in the system in that post I meant it in the literal sense, that most people understand; that the system is not actually playing back anything, having wound the volume to maximum, so that at the most there may be a very faint hissing from the tweeter. Then, when I do that test do I hear any crackling or other audible buzzing to signal that there is any electrical interference coming down the line?

In the sense that you talk of, I use that procedure all the time: I find solo violin or quartets excellent for testing such -- any disturbance getting through damages the sheen of the tone instantly.

Frank

 

[Steve Williams]

The friend I've mentioned many times has picked up the bug, my bug, and he's younger and has more energy than me. So if he picks up the baton, and continues beyond where I've got I'll be fine with that: as someone just said in another thread, sometimes it's all about planting the seed ...

or drinking the Kool Aid

 

[microstrip]

I suppose you can do that. But recently, I've found this to be a highly effective way of assessing the noise in the power:

http://petertakacsplaysbeethoven.com/

Really amazing stuff. Most highly recommended.

Curious. I have several wonderful recordings of string chamber music played by the TAKÁCS QUARTET. Do you know if they is any relation between them?

 

[Robert]

Curious. I have several wonderful recordings of string chamber music played by the TAKÁCS QUARTET. Do you know if they is any relation between them?

Microstrip, I don't think there is a relation. This guy is a professor of music at an notable music school in Ohio. I also have a number of pieces by the Takacs Quartet, who are known for their energetic approach to Beethoven, Brahms, and Schubert.

I am really enjoying this set of Beethoven Sonatas. Beethoven's piano sonatas are some of the best compositions of all time. They have a elegance and deceptive simplicity, and my appreciation of them increases as I listen and the years pass along.

Takacs really plays to the dense harmonic structures underlying the notes. You can really hear the harmonics summate with the decay of the chords. This is in contrast to pianists who focus on the 'attack' of the note. Instead, the pace, the intonation, the piano, and the recording all highlight the richness and complexity of the music, digging well beneath the surface. From an audio perspective, the recording is absolutely outstanding. The engineers have really captured the ravishing sound of the Bosendorfer piano, and the acoustics of the hall. I'm listening in redbook and it is amazing; it is an SACD hybrid, so I would be interested to hear it in that format for comparison. This is an example of where a great interpretation and a great recording really go hand-in-hand.