Is Martin Logan considered High End?

[caesar]

Is "Hybrid" Martin Logan considered High End?

Other than their full range electrostatic speakers, do audiophiles consider Martin Logan a high end brand? Or is it an entry level brand geared to semi-audiophile/ semi-home theater enthusiast?

Their hybrid speakers just don't present the same "cloth of sound to my ears" - it's kind of like someone wearing blue pants and a jet black jacket while calling it a suit. And a lot of audiophiles seem to like Magnepan better at that price point.

 

[ack]

I haven't yet had a single visitor who hasn't been wowed by my system, and I always start by pointing out all the negatives that can be easily identified... The Summit X's and CLX's are considerably even better, and yes, true high end to these ears. Mine? Almost so, but not quite. And don't forget the Statement e2!

 

[MylesBAstor]

The Summit X's and CLX's are considerably even better,

That's an understatement

 

[ack]

Gee, are we a bit biased??? Hey welcome back

 

[MylesBAstor]

Gee, are we a bit biased??? Hey welcome back

Thanks Peter.

No, just relating personal experience The Summit-Xs are worlds better than the previous version new out of the box and they only get better and better with breakin.

 

[Ron]

Love my CLX's. I consider them high end.

 

[microstrip]

Other than their full range electrostatic speakers, do audiophiles consider Martin Logan a high end brand? Or is it an entry level brand geared to semi-audiophile/ semi-home theater enthusiast?

Their hybrid speakers just don't present the same "cloth of sound to my ears" - it's kind of like someone wearing blue pants and a jet black jacket while calling it a suit. (...)

I have to disagree with this view - hybrid Martin-Logan are great speakers. Properly amplified - they need matching amplifiers that can supply the needed current to the crossover and panels - you will not notice any transition. Surely, if you are used to the dipole bass, you may prefer it - but it is just a preference.

IMHO , their top models belong to the High End. I have not listened to the recent cheaper models.

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

The "high end" is a false construct that shouldn't be taken as any indication of anything other than price and target market. With that said, the hybrid ML's can sound great in the sweet spot, but the bigger the panel, the bigger the sweet spot. The smaller hybrids, in particular, can be pretty frustrating once you realize all you have to do is stand up to go from open and detailed to flat, dull upper mids. Slightly off axis? I've heard $200 bookshelves that sound better. ML's "entry-level" motion series floor-standers sound a LOT better off axis, and just barely off axis at that. Honestly, I think many listeners would like them better on axis, as they have a lot more warmth and body.

By the way, this is the second thread questioning Martin Logan's "high end" credentials in the last couple of months. I have to wonder if this is because you can hear them at any Best Buy with a Magnolia Home Theater in the back corner? The have B&Ws now too. Until recently, they had Vienna Acoustics. Are they still "high end" in spite of being tainted by the big box?

Tim

 

[microstrip]

The "high end" is a false construct that shouldn't be taken as any indication of anything other than price and target market.

I hope that 99% of the people in this forum understand what we mean by "high-end" . Surely if you do not valuate or consider non-existent aspects we consider characteristics of high-end equipment you are free to define it as you did.

 

[caesar]

Love my CLX's. I consider them high end.

I DEFINITELY agree. So is the CLS, IMO.

My question was about the hybrids, as I could never get past their boomy bass.

 

[RUR]

I DEFINITELY agree. So is the CLS, IMO.

My question was about the hybrids, as I could never get past their boomy bass.

Please define/describe "boomy bass" for us, Caesar.

 

[caesar]

By the way, this is the second thread questioning Martin Logan's "high end" credentials in the last couple of months. I have to wonder if this is because you can hear them at any Best Buy with a Magnolia Home Theater in the back corner? The have B&Ws now too. Until recently, they had Vienna Acoustics. Are they still "high end" in spite of being tainted by the big box?

Tim

I actually consider the ML presence in these big box stores a huge plus. And B&W's are available at the Apple store. Bottom line is that it draws people into the hobby!

A friend of mine, who is not an audiophile, recently heard a pair of Logans while looking for a TV and is now seriously thinking of picking up a pair so he can wind down at the end of the day.

However, I know there are a lot of arrogant, snooty audiophiles out there who disagree about this and think this taints the brands who expose themselves to the "rabble".

 

[microstrip]

I actually consider the ML presence in these big box stores a huge plus. And B&W's are available at the Apple store. Bottom line is that it draws people into the hobby!

A friend of mine, who is not an audiophile, recently heard a pair of Logans while looking for a TV and is now seriously thinking of picking up a pair so he can wind down at the end of the day.

However, I know there are a lot of arrogant, snooty audiophiles out there who disagree about this and think this taints the brands who expose themselves to the "rabble".

As always there are several different perspectives. More exposition can be nice, but I understand that some brands do not want to have their models exposed in these type of stores, where most surely they will not get proper care in setup and will sound miserable most of of the time. BTW, the analog sound output of the best Apple portables has a very decent quality - IMHO selling B&W at Apple stores is very good marketing, as Apple stores are specialized shops.

 

[caesar]

Please define/describe "boomy bass" for us, Caesar.

The bass on all of the speakers I have heard, except the CLS and CLX, just doesn't sound like it's from the same cloth. They just can't integrate the drivers from the 2 different technologies to sound "right". It's hard to explain it if you have never experienced what I am talking about, but if you were to put your CLX next to a Summit, the difference in the bass would be obvious. The Summit may go lower, but it would sound "disconnected", while your CLX would not go as low, but be "from the same cloth".

 

[caesar]

As always there are several different perspectives. More exposition can be nice, but I understand that some brands do not want to have their models exposed in these type of stores, where most surely they will not get proper care in setup and will sound miserable most of of the time.

Amen. I recently heard the latest Summit x in a big tv store. They were placed only 6 feet apart and were right up against the wall. I have heard $600 B&W bookshelves sound better than those $15K Logans.

 

[MylesBAstor]

The bass on all of the speakers I have heard, except the CLS and CLX, just doesn't sound like it's from the same cloth. They just can't integrate the drivers from the 2 different technologies to sound "right". It's hard to explain it if you have never experienced what I am talking about, but if you were to put your CLX next to a Summit, the difference in the bass would be obvious. The Summit may go lower, but it would sound "disconnected", while your CLX would not go as low, but be "from the same cloth".

I think you're hearing room effects or equipment effects.

Wouldn't that be true of most any multi-driver speaker that goes lower than the CLX? This is like people talking about the midrange purity and clarity of the CLSs. IMHO, remove the bass in any speaker and you'd get the same effect. One of the main benefits of getting the low end right is less mucking up of the midrange. Or you can eliminate and not worry about it


You need to hear them in my room. Esp. the new Summit-Xs.

 

[caesar]

I think you're hearing room effects or equipment effects.

Wouldn't that be true of most any multi-driver speaker that goes lower than the CLX? This is like people talking about the midrange purity and clarity of the CLSs. IMHO, remove the bass in any speaker and you'd get the same effect. One of the main benefits of getting the low end right is less mucking up of the midrange. Or you can eliminate and not worry about it


You need to hear them in my room. Esp. the new Summit-Xs.

Thanks for the invite. If I am traveling, I may take you up on that!

Now given the choice without constraints, would you take the CLX or the Summit X?

 

[MylesBAstor]

Thanks for the invite. If I am traveling, I may take you up on that!

Now given the choice without constraints, would you take the CLX or the Summit X?

Good question as haven't had the opportunity to hear the CLX. The reason went with the X and not the CLX is that reckoned needed to put a sub in with them -- and really don't have the room for a sub. Also the size of the X fits much better into my living room decor and maintain domestic tranquility. I also felt that the CLX would be a more difficult load, rightly or wrongly so, for a tube amplifier. That impedance dip at 20K always bothers me using tubes But 275 watts of tube ower does a nice job on the Xs!

 

[Bruce B]

The bad thing with putting high-end equipment in Best Buy, etc, is improper set-up. You will get the boominess because of untreated rooms and poor placement. I've seen Sonus Faber, VPI and others on those stores as well. ML is doing a disservice to their reputation for letting some snotty nose kid represent their company!

 

[MylesBAstor]

The bad thing with putting high-end equipment in Best Buy, etc, is improper set-up. You will get the boominess because of untreated rooms and poor placement. I've seen Sonus Faber, VPI and others on those stores as well. ML is doing a disservice to their reputation for letting some snotty nose kid represent their company!

You know it's kinda like my business as a personal trainer too Bruce. I work hard to help my clients obtain their desired results but at the end of the day, it's still a business and have to pay my rent