Is Kickstarter and Indiegogo Anti-Capitalist?

[dallasjustice]

I agree. I think it's up to the so called backers to decide whether they want to give money. I am just illustrating the differences between kickstarter/indiegogo campaigns and investment in quality entrepreneurial enterprise.

My point in talking about Capitalism is to show that these differences aren't unimportant. They are fundamental to a well run money making enterprise.

Personally, I'm more interested in whether or not Kickstarter and Indiegogo are good ideas than in whether or not they meet or fail to meet the definition of "capitalism". And to the extent that they increase the freedom of inventors and entrepreneurs to create, and increase the freedom of early adopters to support by early adopting, imo they are ideas worth trying. If they thrive, great; and if not, some smart person will figure out what course-correction needs to be applied and try again.

People who want a secure safety net don't have to participate. Actually that would probably include me, but I have no problem with consenting adults who want to give it a shot.

 

[dallasjustice]

Uh oh, Pono.
http://techcrunch.com/2014/07/11/young-ponomusic/

 

[dallasjustice]

Pono running out of money and needs another CEO.
http://www.whathifi.com/news/neil-young-admits-lack-resources-affecting-pono-music-plans

 

[ar-t]

Maybe he should use his own money, if he believes in it. Of course, that would imply he would hire someone who could actually run it. Since it is not his money, where is his incentive? Other than his ego?

 

[amirm]

It is the problem of someone jumping outside of their core expertise. He should have just partnered with Samsung of some other large company to design, build and sell this thing, not get into hardware manufacturing himself. The product is dead. It just doesn't know it yet....

 

[caesar]

Not sure why kickstarter is anti-capitalist. Free people investing their wealth in whatever they choose (vs. a politician who has collected others' wealth via taxes) sounds like capitalism to me. And the lack of guarantee of a venture's success, such as the seeming failure of Pono, in the free market also sounds like capitalism...

 

[dallasjustice]

Other that charitable contributions, giving money away with no strings attached is a sin. It has nothing to do with capitalism. Just because folks call themselves "backers" doesnt mean they are investors.

In a larger sense, people should be free to flush their money down the toilet if they wish. But when it's gone, I hope they learn from their mistakes. If not, they will likely get took again.

Not sure why kickstarter is anti-capitalist. Free people investing their wealth in whatever they choose (vs. a politician who has collected others' wealth via taxes) sounds like capitalism to me. And the lack of guarantee of a venture's success, such as the seeming failure of Pono, in the free market also sounds like capitalism...

 

[caesar]

Other that charitable contributions, giving money away with no strings attached is a sin. It has nothing to do with capitalism. Just because folks call themselves "backers" doesnt mean they are investors.

In a larger sense, people should be free to flush their money down the toilet if they wish. But when it's gone, I hope they learn from their mistakes. If not, they will likely get took again.

I'm with you for the most part. I think people who are literally flushing money down the toilet or giving it away to random strangers on the street don't have their morality straight. But I'm just not sure how people who gave money to this venture "with no strings attached" are different than someone who is giving money charity. In a way they somehow care about a certain cause, and are free to do as they wish. To me, capitalism = freedom.

 

[dallasjustice]

No question people should be able to do whatever they want. And I am free to point out why many of these Kickstarter schemes are doomed to fail. I'm not saying every campaign is poorly designed. Some of them have been very successful. To the extent this campaign called on backers to send in their money without getting anything in return and not retaining any investment rights, it was a foolish endevour.

Making money in a free exchange is one of the best things we can do for our fellow man. Capitalism is just the process of making money in a free exchange system. Freedom is a necessary component to that system. With freedom comes individual responsibility.

I'm with you for the most part. I think people who are literally flushing money down the toilet or giving it away to random strangers on the street don't have their morality straight. But I'm just not sure how people who gave money to this venture "with no strings attached" are different than someone who is giving money charity. In a way they somehow care about a certain cause, and are free to do as they wish. To me, capitalism = freedom.

 

[FrantzM]

I'm with you for the most part. I think people who are literally flushing money down the toilet or giving it away to random strangers on the street don't have their morality straight. But I'm just not sure how people who gave money to this venture "with no strings attached" are different than someone who is giving money charity. In a way they somehow care about a certain cause, and are free to do as they wish. To me, capitalism = freedom.

Let's not involve morality in this discussion. Capitalism left unchecked can lead to immoral behavior and/or results ... Life is not about only maximizing monetary investments. I also could not help but expand on Capitalism = freedom ... the more you have, the freer you would be?


Please do carry on the discussion about the anti-capitalistic aspect of crowd-funding ...

 

[caesar]

Let's not involve morality in this discussion. Capitalism left unchecked can lead to immoral behavior and/or results ... Life is not about only maximizing monetary investments. I also could not help but expand on Capitalism = freedom ... the more you have, the freer you would be?


Please do carry on the discussion about the anti-capitalistic aspect of crowd-funding ...

Hey Frantz,

Don't mean to start a morality discussion here, but at the same time philosophy is integrated... As much as I would like to , I won't address your other points, as they are off-topic for his forum. Happy to discuss freedom, happiness, materialism, morality, their relationship, and other fascinating philosophical topics over some beer or shots of tequila sometime, though...

Keeping it on topic, however, people invest, donate, or buy what they believe in or like (or think they like). A lot of people invested their money in Pono, but Tone Audio kickstarter ran far short of their goal of $100K. (But will apparently still be publishing their paper issue after making less than 30% of their goal.)

 

[caesar]

No question people should be able to do whatever they want. And I am free to point out why many of these Kickstarter schemes are doomed to fail. I'm not saying every campaign is poorly designed. Some of them have been very successful. To the extent this campaign called on backers to send in their money without getting anything in return and not retaining any investment rights, it was a foolish endevour.

Making money in a free exchange is one of the best things we can do for our fellow man. Capitalism is just the process of making money in a free exchange system. Freedom is a necessary component to that system. With freedom comes individual responsibility.

Well said!!!

 

[caesar]

I agree. I think it's up to the so called backers to decide whether they want to give money. I am just illustrating the differences between kickstarter/indiegogo campaigns and investment in quality entrepreneurial enterprise.

My point in talking about Capitalism is to show that these differences aren't unimportant. They are fundamental to a well run money making enterprise.

My take on order of success of investment: knowledgeable investor > kickstarter investor (maybe knowledgeable but equally likely to be acting on emotion or following the herd > government bureaucrat

 

[Mosin]

I believe we may be confusing the words capitalist and benefactor, or maybe even patron, when we talk about Kickstarter and Indegogo. Does every contributor expect to see a return on his money? I suspect not. Still, there is some expectation of a successful outcome.

Peggy Guggenheim commissioned a painting from Jackson Pollock, although she hardly knew him. That commission turned out to be the kickstarter of his career. Make no mistake, his was a capitalist endeavor, as well as an artistic one.

I'm confident that Peggy Guggenheim funded some unknown artists that dropped through the cracks of history, so what makes these Internet based approaches any different, aside from the method of delivery?

Everything is a gamble.

 

[caesar]

I believe we may be confusing the words capitalist and benefactor, or maybe even patron, when we talk about Kickstarter and Indegogo. Does every contributor expect to see a return on his money? I suspect not. Still, there is some expectation of a successful outcome.

Peggy Guggenheim commissioned a painting from Jackson Pollock, although she hardly knew him. That commission turned out to be the kickstarter of his career. Make no mistake, his was a capitalist endeavor, as well as an artistic one.

I'm confident that Peggy Guggenheim funded some unknown artists that dropped through the cracks of history, so what makes these Internet based approaches any different, aside from the method of delivery?

Everything is a gamble.

That is my take, also. As long as it's not a politician confiscating money to build a bridge to no-where, it's people acting freely in their own interests. But then again, I will put my money on Steve Jobs or other super-capitalist to actually shape or create a new industry rather than a guy running a kick-starter campaign.

 

[Mosin]

That is my take, also. As long as it's not a politician confiscating money to build a bridge to no-where, it's people acting freely in their own interests. But then again, I will put my money on Steve Jobs or other super-capitalist to actually shape or create a new industry rather than a guy running a kick-starter campaign.

Yes, but yours is a matter of preference just like someone who had rather buy a forthcoming Jasper Johns painting than a selection of student work. Neither is wrong, though.

 

[GaryProtein]

FWIW..........

The Micro hit $1 million in 25 hours. That compares to game console Ouya, which hit $1 million in 8.22 hours and watch computer Pebble’s 27 hours.

I thought THIS was the fasting funding Kickstarter:

http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/70...pe-kickstarter?_cc=__d___&_ccid=1nzyag.ntkdef