Is it "whats best forum" , or what's more expensive

[JackD201]

Gotta love the undecipherable names they started giving their products too.

 

[bbb]

I'd better get on with the building of a portable incarnation of this then, the only one in existence at present is sitting atop one of my speakers with wires dangling everywhere, playing out sweet Vivaldi as I type...

Ha Ha! sorry to put you in a spot opus but I hope you are game for it. Speaking of Vivaldi, amazon uk has a really cheap copy of Gil Shaham doing a very nice rendition of the 4 seasons.

 

[opus111]

Well you're targetting RMAF 13 right so that's giving me a few months to get my act together, not really putting me in a tight spot with that amount of notice. I was building one anyway to document the process, would be happy to have it take part in a shoot-out.

 

[bbb]

Well you're targetting RMAF 13 right so that's giving me a few months to get my act together, not really putting me in a tight spot with that amount of notice. I was building one anyway to document the process, would be happy to have it take part in a shoot-out.

Cool. Over to Bruce and Co, I guess. Would be really great if this can be set up.

 

[MarinJim]

I have 2 DAC's coming in this week. Tomorrow I'll have a Phasure and Thursday a Lavry......

I have heard great things about the ugly duckling Phasure.

 

[audioarcher]

I haven't built one myself but have designed a passive filter which I've simulated and appears to do the job nicely on the ESS Sabre. Also a passive filter at the output of my NOS DAC does more good than harm to my ears. But yes the ultimate test is by listening.

opus111, I spoke with Dan at ModWright on the phone today. I asked him if he passively filters between the DAC and the tube output stage and he said that he does. So I guess there is no need to worry.

 

[MarinJim]

opus111, I spoke with Dan at ModWright on the phone today. I asked him if he passively filters between the DAC and the tube output stage and he said that he does. So I guess there is no need to worry.

I think Dan and his company Modwright, is bar none, one of the most innovative and progressive out there. I know this from buying his products.

 

[Jazzbo]

For My Ears Only. That's how I see it when it comes to audio. I have been a lover of audio equipment for many years. As a retired African American audio enthusiast on a fixed income I have to be frugal regarding all of my audio purchases. All of my major equipment except my Magnapan speakers, sub-woofers, audio cables, AC receptacles and phono cartridges was purchased used and love what I am hearing.

While I have been a subscriber to Absolute Sound and Stereophile for the past 20 or so years, I generally don't purchase based on their reviews unless I can later hear it and then purchase the piece used. I try to attend as many audio shows as I can and love to hear the mega-thousand-dollar stuff, I can still go home, kick off my shoes, retire to my listening room and engulf myself in my jazz or classical music.

I love reading about individuals who can afford to purchase the high priced stuff. I am sure that most are not influenced by a strong desire to have the best, while denying it may not sound the best. While I understand there are those who buy stuff based on the name, I believe most who truly love the music, will buy their system based on what it sounds like to them. My hats off to those who can afford to buy the very best.

jazzbo and music lover

 

[MarinJim]

For My Ears Only. That's how I see it when it comes to audio. I have been a lover of audio equipment for many years. As a retired African American audio enthusiast on a fixed income I have to be frugal regarding all of my audio purchases. All of my major equipment except my Magnapan speakers, sub-woofers, audio cables, AC receptacles and phono cartridges was purchased used and love what I am hearing.

While I have been a subscriber to Absolute Sound and Stereophile for the past 20 or so years, I generally don't purchase based on their reviews unless I can later hear it and then purchase the piece used. I try to attend as many audio shows as I can and love to hear the mega-thousand-dollar stuff, I can still go home, kick off my shoes, retire to my listening room and engulf myself in my jazz or classical music.

I love reading about individuals who can afford to purchase the high priced stuff. I am sure that most are not influenced by a strong desire to have the best, while denying it may not sound the best. While I understand there are those who buy stuff based on the name, I believe most who truly love the music, will buy their system based on what it sounds like to them. My hats off to those who can afford to buy the very best.

jazzbo and music lover

Cheers. I could not have said it better. And I also rarely buy new, including my BMWs.

 

[Johnny Vinyl]

For My Ears Only. That's how I see it when it comes to audio. I have been a lover of audio equipment for many years. As a retired African American audio enthusiast on a fixed income I have to be frugal regarding all of my audio purchases. All of my major equipment except my Magnapan speakers, sub-woofers, audio cables, AC receptacles and phono cartridges was purchased used and love what I am hearing.

While I have been a subscriber to Absolute Sound and Stereophile for the past 20 or so years, I generally don't purchase based on their reviews unless I can later hear it and then purchase the piece used. I try to attend as many audio shows as I can and love to hear the mega-thousand-dollar stuff, I can still go home, kick off my shoes, retire to my listening room and engulf myself in my jazz or classical music.

I love reading about individuals who can afford to purchase the high priced stuff. I am sure that most are not influenced by a strong desire to have the best, while denying it may not sound the best. While I understand there are those who buy stuff based on the name, I believe most who truly love the music, will buy their system based on what it sounds like to them. My hats off to those who can afford to buy the very best.

jazzbo and music lover

Very well said indeed Jazzbo and it mimics my own situation. I love hearing and reading about the ultra-expensive stuff that people buy and can indulge in. And while I know that my system could never hold a candle to it, it doesn't take away from the fact that what I have is the best that I can afford and have put together with care and consideration. I think that for anyone who is a music-lover first and foremost this is likely their view/situation as well.

What I have now is the best that I can afford, and that is why I fit in with this forum and it's calling card "what's best". It has nothing to do with money...only passion.

 

[MarinJim]

"It has nothing to do with money...only passion. "

Boy, two gems in a row. Again, could not have said it better!

 

[RichDavis]

Some people just have lots of money, they want those statement products since they just want the warm and fuzzies that they have a "COST NO OBJECT" system. Personally, people would be better off spending money on getting their room as perfect as they can FIRST. But it's generally the other way around. People tend to fix room problems with better equipment, when the room is probably the first problem they need to address.

Yeah, if I had unlimited amounts of money, I would buy an expensive system to have my "Reference System", but I wouldn't necessarily buy the most expensive system available, but they would be rather expensive none the less. As much as I like the big huge amps, ultra expensive DACs, pre amps, etc. I am also liking products like Devialet where it's just a good all in one box for no more than $15K, add speakers and speaker cables and source and call it a day. Not much to really choose from other than speakers, speaker cables, and then just connecting a computer via USB. Yeah, I don't play vinyl anymore, my content investment is in digital and I'm fine with that. 24 bit is paving the way and digital is getting pretty darn good and it's actually less expensive in many ways over vinyl. I've heard digital sources that came pretty close to some of the most expensive vinyl setups and quite frankly, it wasn't a big enough difference to warrant spending 2x the price and having the inconvenience of dealing with breaking out a record, cleaning it, putting on the turntable, having to flip the album every 20 minutes, etc. I prefer the convenience of digital and if the experience is close enough, then to me, vinyl makes no sense. Digital files don't wear out, get dirty, pops, clicks and there is no needle to replace.

But there is a point where one simply can't keep up with the checking out the latest and greatest and evaluating it since it takes a while to do this unless you are a professional reviewer where that's your sole purpose in life is to evaluate and review products and get paid to do so.

But I think the biggest mistake most people make is not getting their room dialed in first. That can make an system sound great or bad no matter how much you spend on equipment. I would spend $100K getting a room dialed in before spending $100K on cables. You'll get far more improvement in the overall sound spending the money on the room acoustics first than just about any piece of gear. Just ask any acoustic engineer that designs rooms for a living.

 

[rbbert]

welcome! also see

http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showt...-Two-The-New-Listening-Room-Of-Steve-Williams

 

[RichDavis]

What would be an interesting study is to set up a system, then take frequency response curve of the system, then change ONE thing in the system (cable, pre amp, power amp) that you are testing and then take another frequency response curve of the NEW system and then compare. I wonder if that's an objective method of actually VIEWING any difference in one component vs another to get some objectivity. IF the concept of a cable (power cable, speaker cable, interconnect cable) makes a difference than there SHOULD be a difference in the frequency response curve of the system. At least that's the only measurement that will show SOME degree of differences.

 

[RichDavis]

Absolutely true... just because it's bigger and more expensive, does not make it better. I've fallen into that trap and know several others that have as well.
Just because you can, don't mean you should. Things have gotten out of hand with this elitist attitude.

Bruce, I've read that you are one of the various studios that is doing remastering for HD Tracks. If that's true, I also checked out that you have a variety of different AD converters and having done some reading, I've read that there is a trend towards studios using DAD converters. Can you post your findings on the mastering of recordings, it would be VERY interesting from the consumer standpoint as to what equipment you used during the mastering process of each recording your studio was responsible for. I've read about what equipment different mastering studios are using from what converters, outboard equipment, playback systems. Many of these studios are using a variety of speakers ranging from Wilson, Eggleston, Duntech, and others, AD converters by DAD, Weiss, Lavry, Prism, etc., cables by Transparent, MIT, etc. and it's always nice to learn from a mastering standpoint as to what's being used and how a mastering engineer does their "magic". A good mastering job can make or break a recording.

It would just be nice to know which recordings your studio did, etc. Thanks!!!

 

[esldude]

What would be an interesting study is to set up a system, then take frequency response curve of the system, then change ONE thing in the system (cable, pre amp, power amp) that you are testing and then take another frequency response curve of the NEW system and then compare. I wonder if that's an objective method of actually VIEWING any difference in one component vs another to get some objectivity. IF the concept of a cable (power cable, speaker cable, interconnect cable) makes a difference than there SHOULD be a difference in the frequency response curve of the system. At least that's the only measurement that will show SOME degree of differences.

Well, you have more problems doing measurements in the room if for no other reason than ambient noise changing.

However, if we can agree that to change sound in the room you have to change the signal at the speaker terminals then we have something we can work with. Further we could do more than frequency response though that is one thing you can do. Rig up to record with very high fidelity the signal at the speaker terminals. Change something and do the same recording (yes even including the real music) and then do a difference test. Subtract one recording from the other. Whatever is left is the difference.

The old fashioned real-time method is to change something in only one channel of a system, and place a meter between the two hot leads of the speakers. Any difference is what shows up on the meter. Another variant was to run high impedance headphones between the two hot leads, again what you hear is what differs between the two channels. Usually what you would hear is poor channel to channel level matching. There are ways to trim that out if one wished.

Now you could do this with cables and such pretty well. With some changes like two different amps or pre-amps you might have time delays one channel to the other. But it is a method that could be done without all that much difficulty.

 

[Bruce B]

Well, you have more problems doing measurements in the room if for no other reason than ambient noise changing.

However, if we can agree that to change sound in the room you have to change the signal at the speaker terminals then we have something we can work with. Further we could do more than frequency response though that is one thing you can do. Rig up to record with very high fidelity the signal at the speaker terminals. Change something and do the same recording (yes even including the real music) and then do a difference test. Subtract one recording from the other. Whatever is left is the difference.

The old fashioned real-time method is to change something in only one channel of a system, and place a meter between the two hot leads of the speakers. Any difference is what shows up on the meter. Another variant was to run high impedance headphones between the two hot leads, again what you hear is what differs between the two channels. Usually what you would hear is poor channel to channel level matching. There are ways to trim that out if one wished.

Now you could do this with cables and such pretty well. With some changes like two different amps or pre-amps you might have time delays one channel to the other. But it is a method that could be done without all that much difficulty.

You would need a mono recording to measure channel variations.

 

[egidius]

new??

And I also rarely buy new, including my BMWs.

NEW? Whoever buys cars new..(same here for audio.) e

 

[esldude]

You would need a mono recording to measure channel variations.

Yes of course, didn't think I needed to point that out. Seemed obvious.

 

[Bruce B]

Bruce, I've read that you are one of the various studios that is doing remastering for HD Tracks. If that's true, I also checked out that you have a variety of different AD converters and having done some reading, I've read that there is a trend towards studios using DAD converters. Can you post your findings on the mastering of recordings, it would be VERY interesting from the consumer standpoint as to what equipment you used during the mastering process of each recording your studio was responsible for. I've read about what equipment different mastering studios are using from what converters, outboard equipment, playback systems. Many of these studios are using a variety of speakers ranging from Wilson, Eggleston, Duntech, and others, AD converters by DAD, Weiss, Lavry, Prism, etc., cables by Transparent, MIT, etc. and it's always nice to learn from a mastering standpoint as to what's being used and how a mastering engineer does their "magic". A good mastering job can make or break a recording.

It would just be nice to know which recordings your studio did, etc. Thanks!!!

For HDtracks and other labels that want mastering, I try to use the most transparent converters I can. Right now it's either Merging Horus or Grimm AD1. The Grimm is a one trick pony, so my go to converter now is the Horus. I do not use any digital plugins in my mastering chain. Never heard one that can emulate the hardware. So if it's a digital file, out it goes to the Horus D-A and into a Dangerous Liason. From there it gets routed to any number of analog hardware I have. Currently I have a Rupert Neve Mastering console, Dangerous BAX EQ, Millennia EQ, Sontec EQ, Maselec and EAR comps. Most of the stuff just gets maybe a gentle EQ, no more than .5 - 1.0dB. Sometimes I run through one of the comps just to give it some glue or coherence, but no gain reduction. I hate comps!

If I receive a digital file that has been mostly created inside a computer with things such as VST instruments, I may run those though one of my Studers if the other analog gear can't get what I want. I've used gear by Manley, Weiss, Crane Song and others and felt their gear left too much of a footprint on the signal.

After all the analog gear, it gets routed back to the Horus A-D and into a Pyramix workstation.

For analog tape, the signal gets routed directly into the analog console and then to the A-D converter. I use 4-5 A-D converters because I feel they all have their benefits. For the Wilson and Audiofon files, I ran the tapes into 6 different A-D converters. I then labeled the files 1, 2, 3, 4, etc. which allowed the clients to focus directly on the music instead of which converter was used.

For years we used the DAD AX24 converter and wanted to upgrade to their newest one, but at the time it was not finished. I don't know if they are shipping yet or not. I don't see it listed on any of the gear sites. So instead, we chose the Merging Horus. The reason we don't use the Weiss or Lavry converters is because we don't know what's going to be coming through the door... PCM 44.1 or PCM 384kHz... or DSD64 or DSD256?? We have to be prepared for everything. We did try the Weiss on the Wilson transfers though. Our whole studio, from the electrical panel to the speaker is wired with JPS Labs. We use the JPS Aluminata for all PC's, IC's and speaker cable.
We had the Transparent Opus MM2 in here for about a month and didn't like the sound.
For a list of our clients, you can go to our website. We've done everything from Metal to Classical.