Is it "whats best forum" , or what's more expensive

[MylesBAstor]

Unfortunately an option available only to a very select few.

However, since the select few do actually participate in this forum, perhaps it would be a great way to probe this matter further say in the next RMAF. It could be part of the official seminar but better an informal one held with the cooperation of an exhibitor after hours.

Take a master tape track each (generously provided by some members) from say large scale classical, rock and jazz and make a copy each of RBCD, 24/192, 32/384, DSD, DSDx2 and whatever formats thats agreed upon. Use a DAC capable of playing all formats and DACs that will play each format best. For example, we could use the Playback as the control DAC and various other dacs such as Opus's dac for RBCD and etc etc.

Take a run through the control dac first and see which format is better. Then to give each format the best shot, use whichever dac that show the format best and do a second run.

Would this be something people would be interested to see happen? Or am I smoking some funny stuff

Bruce did something like that at last years RMAF for people.

 

[MylesBAstor]

http://www.analogplanet.com/content/who-14-lp-box-set-coming-mca

Actually link above is interesting. Mikey reports they did archive some of the tape to DSD as well as PCM.

I have the anniversary box set and they chose to use the 1996 remix...had to figure out some of these things...
no..its maddening.

So how does the reconcile with your above statement that there wasn't a DSD copy of Quadrophenia?

 

[bbb]

Also, while we are at it, has anyone actually done any measurements wrt to the various formats ie. using the same equipments and in the same room, measure the frequency response generated by each format? Would this provide any insights?

 

[Andre Marc]

So how does the reconcile with your above statement that there wasn't a DSD copy of Quadrophenia?

Easy, I am right and wrong. Townshend spoke to Sound On Sound early last year, and that is where I got that info.

These DSD transfers were done after that. Clearly, some of the Who tapes were done to DSD..Tommy for sure, but not all.

 

[Andre Marc]

Also, while we are at it, has anyone actually done any measurements wrt to the various formats ie. using the same equipments and in the same room, measure the frequency response generated by each format? Would this provide any insights?

Don't go there...

 

[bbb]

Bruce did something like that at last years RMAF for people.

But does it have the 2nd part of the test? The results of the 1st part will be obvious, that's why I used the word control DAC. You use the 1st part to set a baseline (32/384 >> 24/192 >> RBCD, DSDx2 >> DSD >> SACD, 24/196 >> DSD?? etc etc) and then you try and see if the 2nd part upset the apple cart or not. If it does, then there is useful things to talk about and hopefully we can take this matter further rather than going round and round in circle.

 

[Bruce B]

Would this be something people would be interested to see happen? Or am I smoking some funny stuff

You might be smoking some funny stuff, but I did this also for Michael Lavorgna comparing the different formats and he only used (I think) the Mytek as a control. Using several DAC's would be a logistical nightmare in a setting like RMAF. I recorded mastertapes at last RMAF and played them back via the Playback and people were stunned. I'd be willing to do this again, maybe on a larger scale.

 

[bbb]

Don't go there...

Ha Ha I Know but what the heck. Hopefully we get something out of it before it goes down the hole. I suspect the difference in measurements won't be that great and the objectivists will say there we are imagining things and the subjectivists will say how can the objectivists be so deaf. Same old same old.

As I said earlier, find a copy of Bounce by Matthew Syed, I got mine for less than US$2. It is an interesting read.

 

[bbb]

You might be smoking some funny stuff, but I did this also for Michael Lavorgna comparing the different formats and he only used (I think) the Mytek as a control. Using several DAC's would be a logistical nightmare in a setting like RMAF. I recorded mastertapes at last RMAF and played them back via the Playback and people were stunned. I'd be willing to do this again, maybe on a larger scale.

Hi Bruce, thanks for the reply. Like I said earlier, if only using a control dac, the results will be obvious. Anyways, it shouldn't be a logistical nightmare if you restrict it to 3 dacs, a control dac, a rbcd dac, a high res pcm. The shootout will be control vs HR pcm, control vs RBCD, HR pcs vs RBCD. As to the format, it could be RBCD, 24/192 or 32/384, DSDx2. After this, if anyone is keen to try other formats/dacs they can do it if there is time. This can be done over a couple of days.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Hi Bruce, thanks for the reply. Like I said earlier, if only using a control dac, the results will be obvious. Anyways, it shouldn't be a logistical nightmare if you restrict it to 3 dacs, a control dac, a rbcd dac, a high res pcm. The shootout will be control vs HR pcm, control vs RBCD, HR pcs vs RBCD. As to the format, it could be RBCD, 24/192 or 32/384, DSDx2. After this, if anyone is keen to try other formats/dacs they can do it if there is time. This can be done over a couple of days.

Bruce essentially does this every day. his studio has every dac known to man and all the switching right there. i've heard him take an analog signal and run it through various formats and thru various dacs. it's really quite easy to hear what they all do to the source.

there is a very good reason Bruce prefers dsd.

 

[opus111]

I think the reason is he doesn't have a SOTA NOS DAC amongst all the 'dacs known to man'

 

[Mike Lavigne]

I think the reason is he doesn't have a SOTA NOS DAC amongst all the 'dacs known to man'

 

[Bruce B]

I have 2 DAC's coming in this week. Tomorrow I'll have a Phasure and Thursday a Lavry......

 

[Andre Marc]

Bruce essentially does this every day. his studio has every dac known to man and all the switching right there. i've heard him take an analog signal and run it through various formats and thru various dacs. it's really quite easy to hear what they all do to the source.

there is a very good reason Bruce prefers dsd.

Sony made a fatal mistake by not giving away DSD technology and then collecting a royalty fee on the back end.

DSD/SACD could have killed CDs 7 or 8 years ago.

 

[opus111]

I have 2 DAC's coming in this week. Tomorrow I'll have a Phasure and Thursday a Lavry......

The Phasure is the one with the PC built into it? Using PCM1704 in 16X OS?

 

[JackD201]

Sony made a fatal mistake by not giving away DSD technology and then collecting a royalty fee on the back end.

DSD/SACD could have killed CDs 7 or 8 years ago.

Wouldn't be the first time for Sony. Betamax, ATRAC, Memory Sticks.................

 

[bbb]

I think with Playback for DSD, phasure (make sure it is as optimally set up as possible with XXX high end, it is known to be very finicky with a steep learning curve) for High Res PCM and opus's dac (unless someone is willing to throw in a Zanden or other well regarded NOS dac) for RBCD, we have a decent line up for the test.

 

[opus111]

I'm rather unclear what DSD technology might actually be. Philips had 1bit technology ('Bitstream') long before Sony, and they abandoned it - I still have several samples of their TDA1547 which have never been fired up.

 

[opus111]

opus's dac

I'd better get on with the building of a portable incarnation of this then, the only one in existence at present is sitting atop one of my speakers with wires dangling everywhere, playing out sweet Vivaldi as I type...

 

[Andre Marc]

Wouldn't be the first time for Sony. Betamax, ATRAC, Memory Sticks.................

True! Yet their CEOs get paid hundreds of millions of dollars for ******* up. Nice.