Is Dave Brubeck "Jazz-Lite"

[Phelonious Ponk]

While I would call "Time Out" an innovative album, I'd agree that Brubeck's career, overall, was good but not as genre-defining and influential as Peterson, Monk or Hancock either. But then again, I wouldn't put Wynton in that category either.

Tim

 

[caesar]

Although I don't own any of his recordings, Kenny G is actually a very accomplished musician. He just doesn't get respect from the hard core jazz guys because he is the leading elevator music jazz guy.

He is also a very smart business man, and is much richer than the jazz guys who hate on him. And being a smart business man, he will take any opportunity to get visibility, even if it reinforces his image as the greatest elevator music man of all time. I have no doubt his CD sales clicked up a bit due to this super bowl commercial, despite its intentions...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3snyXTNmFm8&feature=relmfu

 

[jadis]

Just to refresh the topic of 'jazz lite', as I'm not a hard core jazz guy, maybe we can start a discussion about what or who are the jazz lite people and what is not so positive about it. I grew with with Dave Grusin, Lee Ritenour, David Benoit, Joe Sample, Bob James, Earl Klugh to name a few and I wonder if these guys are jazz lite or not. I did not grow up with Dave Brubeck's music so it's interesting to have him pinned as a jazz lite suspect too. As for Kenny G, his music was all over the air waves in the 90s and I have no problem listening to him. I had a few of his CDs then, and now I only have his 2 LP live album, which I like very much.

 

[FrantzM]

Although I don't own any of his recordings, Kenny G is actually a very accomplished musician. He just doesn't get respect from the hard core jazz guys because he is the leading elevator music jazz guy.

He is also a very smart business man, and is much richer than the jazz guys who hate on him. And being a smart business man, he will take any opportunity to get visibility, even if it reinforces his image as the greatest elevator music man of all time. I have no doubt his CD sales clicked up a bit due to this super bowl commercial, despite its intentions...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3snyXTNmFm8&feature=relmfu

Kenny G music is the very definition of Jazz Lite. That a given artist makes money or enjoy commercial is not a good indication of his or her output quality... Britney Spears makes more money than any jazz or Classical artist you care to name. She also makes more than a lot of much better (rather easy to find, they just have to be able to sing) pop artists.

@Jadis

Did grow up listening to the same people you mentioned and once in a while, I go back to some of their albums for memory sake... If you go a little deeper into the same label that recorded these guys, you'll find extremely interesting artists which will not be confused with the lighter fare of jazz... CTI is a good place to find some very good rather accessible jazz albums ...

And yes, Dave Brubeck is IMO, "Jazz Lite" ... Higher level than Kenny G, in the same person estimation, though

 

[es347]

Worse yet Pat Boone singing Metal! Hahahahahaha!

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

"What is jazz lite" depends on who you're asking. I don't put Brubeck in that category because the little bit of Brubeck I own is his best, most innovative work. I don't consider Kenny G jazz at all. Pop music with a soprano sax. At the other extreme, there are folks out there who are hardcore fans of "out" jazz like Ornette Coleman, Eric Sate, etc. who probably consider Cool and Hard Bop lightweight. And that's my favorite stuff.

Tim

 

[LL21]

yes, jazz-lite is ultimately going to be a subjective term. I think the basis is...what does one consider quality, well-written soulful jazz...and what does one consider pop music equivalent of jazz that sounds ok...but upon deeper listening may be the equivalent of cheap B-quality action movie, or fun to look at, but otherwise slap-dash modern art (vs, say Guernico or Picasso). Stuff you listen to with your eyes closed...and stuff fit for the elevator while you're heading to the 27th floor.

personally, i really like Dave Brubeck. i dont he falls into that lite category. i am not a fan of all his albums, but i do like Time Out, Time Further Out a lot.

 

[FrantzM]

I agree that it is subjective, no doubt .. Yet there are areas in which most people do find agreement .. No one would ever think of Coltrane Thelonious Monk or Duke Ellington as Lite-Jazz .. Dave Brubeck was good, very good. However aside from Time Out and (conceding grudgingly) Time Further Out his output was not noteworthy... Not much that even a great fan of his could point at as must-own albums.

 

[LL21]

I agree that it is subjective, no doubt .. Yet there are areas in which most people do find agreement .. No one would ever think of Coltrane Thelonious Monk or Duke Ellington as Lite-Jazz .. Dave Brubeck was good, very good. However aside from Time Out and (conceding grudgingly) Time Further Out his output was not noteworthy... Not much that even a great fan of his could point at as must-own albums.

Totally agree (including the grudingly bit about Time Further Out.)

 

[jadis]

Nice inputs from all. I guess in the end, jazz lite is just a category, like dixie, big band, bop, hard bop, swing, fusion, etc. I read that Duke Ellington was often reluctant in defining his band's kind of music - he would say "it's all music." I do feel that jazz can be broadly divided into 'heavy jazz' and 'lite jazz'. Lite jazz fits well when I'm driving. I can't imagine me listening to Sketches of Spain or Kind of Blue while driving in downtown traffic.

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

Nice inputs from all. I guess in the end, jazz lite is just a category, like dixie, big band, bop, hard bop, swing, fusion, etc. I read that Duke Ellington was often reluctant in defining his band's kind of music - he would say "it's all music." I do feel that jazz can be broadly divided into 'heavy jazz' and 'lite jazz'. Lite jazz fits well when I'm driving. I can't imagine me listening to Sketches of Spain or Kind of Blue while driving in downtown traffic.

I find that "Miles Runs The Voodoo Down" goes really well with heavy traffic.

Tim

 

[Johnny Vinyl]

Should I bite on the Classic Records issue of Time Out?

 

[LL21]

Should I bite on the Classic Records issue of Time Out?

Hi John...depends on how much you love Time Out...same as my earlier answer on Bach Cello Suites!! ;0...turns out Time Out is also one of my favorites, though i have a growing jazz collection including Stanely Turrentine, Dexter Gordon, Red Garland Trio and quintet, Horace Silver, Oscar peterson, Thelonius Monk, etc...

I own the K2 Time Out and the K2 Kind of Blue...i figured...what the heck...i love these albums and they are classics in jazz...and the recordings are stunning. not cheap, but if you want stunning detail, you'll find it here. IMHO, more so with KOB than Time Out. I own the 'regular remastered' Time Out on CD and it is actually quite good. the KOB on K2 is stunning in comparison to the Sony Legacy? remaster.

again...just one man's opinion.

 

[Johnny Vinyl]

Hi John...depends on how much you love Time Out...same as my earlier answer on Bach Cello Suites!! ;0...turns out Time Out is also one of my favorites, though i have a growing jazz collection including Stanely Turrentine, Dexter Gordon, Red Garland Trio and quintet, Horace Silver, Oscar peterson, etc...

I own the K2 Time Out and the K2 Kind of Blue...i figured...what the heck...i love these albums and they are classics in jazz...and the recordings are stunning. not cheap, but if you want stunning detail, you'll find it here. IMHO, more so with KOB than Time Out. I own the 'regular remastered' Time Out on CD and it is actually quite good. the KOB on K2 is stunning in comparison to the Sony Legacy? remaster.

again...just one man's opinion.

Time Out is one of my fave recordings and I actually have one of the orignal pressings my Dad bought in Holland in '61 (but has seen better days). I have to look in my collection to see what other pressings I have (and I have 2 at least), but I like what Classic Records has done...hence my question. I'm not up on the digital side of things, so I don't know which is the preferred copy.

 

[MylesBAstor]

Hardly

See this piece:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=94723908

 

[Johnny Vinyl]

Hardly

See this piece:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=94723908

Your point?

 

[MylesBAstor]

Your point?

That Brubeck was and continued to be an innovative force in jazz

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

Old thread. Answer is still no.

Tim

 

[Cascais]

That's a good one. Dave Brubeck was unique,some of my favorites are Jazz at Oberlin,Take five and Jazz impressions of Japan,among others. Brubeck was on the cover of Time magazine in 1954,he was cutting edge and a giant of the jazz world. Don't forget the legend Paul Desmond, who in my estimation can be counted as one of the top three to ever pick up a sax.

I agree with your assessment of Brubeck's work in the early 1950s including Jazz at Oberlin. Jazz Goes to College got him on the cover of Time, and is one of my favorite records, but even better is Jazz at the College of the Pacific, from about 1953. Brubeck's and Desmond's solos are superb on 'The Way You Look Tonight', but it is their empathy and counterpoint that impresses as they finish off each other's musical thoughts, like chamber music. Yet the quartet could swing, getting down and dirty with the blues. The ending of that piece is purely classical emerging naturally from what went before. Brubeck was a multi-dimensional musician, classically trained. Not jazz lite.

 

[Soundproof]

Brubeck had a long career, and he wasn't brilliant for the duration. But the quartet he put together with Desmond, Wright and Morello ranks as one of the finest jazz ensembles in the history of the genre.
Their experiments with time signatures required them to develop short central themes to be played around with. Take Five (written by Desmond) made them stand-out famous, but it wasn't their only musical achievement.
Their Carnegie Hall concert is simply incredible. They hit the groove a short way in, and then simply begin to deliver magic (sometimes only clichees will do).

Of course, it wasn't just Brubeck - it was the four of them, particularly the little remembered Morello, the world's best drummer, ever. Alan Dawson, who drummed for Brubeck when he reassembled a quartet, hadn't a clue as to what Morello was doing at the drums.

Belgian television did a wonderful recording session, with excellent image and sound, when the quartet was at its most famous, the year after they recorded "At Carnegie Hall."
Look at that, and tell me they are Jazz Lite.

https://www.google.com/search?q=you...:nb-NO:official&client=firefox-a&channel=fflb