Insane Sonny Clark LP Price

[MylesBAstor]

The main reason people are paying these crazy prices for original Blue Note LP's have more to do owning a piece of music history rather than the belief that the sound quality is above current audiophile re-issues. Though some may say the originals do sound better.

The sound quality of RVG's (Rudy Van Gelder) work on these original Blue Note titles have been criticized by some folk as being far less superior by today's standards... and yes that may be true. Some of that obviously has to do with the technical limitations of the electronics in those days. But another reason for the sound on those Blue Notes... RVG was giving Alfred Lion the "flavor" he envisioned, which is the "Blue Note Flavor". Some get it, some don't. Some like it, and some don't.

How much would some people pay for a piece of Beethoven ??? Same applies here. Just as Beethoven is treasured a few hundred years later the same goes for Blue Note, and many artists that have recorded for Blue Note (and other record labels). Jazz itself is Americana history. It's a shame that so many Jazz artists that put out these great works of art never got the recognition they deserved for their contribution to America then and now simply due to the color of their skin.

Did you ever notice that there are so many old classical records out there in pristine condition, as if they were never even played... That's because people bought them for show. Behind closed doors people were listening to Jazz.

As I wrote in a recent piece, the Blue Notes were according to Steve Hoffman, who's been involved in the remastering for Chad and Joe/Ron, "overloaded," giving them their characteristic sound To my ears, the Impulses are far better sounding--though one can't necessarily judge by the LP release, only by the tape. Different artists, different tastes, different jazz styles, etc.

 

[puroagave]

The main reason people are paying these crazy prices for original Blue Note LP's have more to do owning a piece of music history rather than the belief that the sound quality is above current audiophile re-issues. Though some may say the originals do sound better.

The sound quality of RVG's (Rudy Van Gelder) work on these original Blue Note titles have been criticized by some folk as being far less superior by today's standards... and yes that may be true. Some of that obviously has to do with the technical limitations of the electronics in those days. But another reason for the sound on those Blue Notes... RVG was giving Alfred Lion the "flavor" he envisioned, which is the "Blue Note Flavor". Some get it, some don't. Some like it, and some don't.

How much would some people pay for a piece of Beethoven ??? Same applies here. Just as Beethoven is treasured a few hundred years later the same goes for Blue Note, and many artists that have recorded for Blue Note (and other record labels). Jazz itself is Americana history. It's a shame that so many Jazz artists that put out these great works of art never got the recognition they deserved for their contribution to America then and now simply due to the color of their skin.

Did you ever notice that there are so many old classical records out there in pristine condition, as if they were never even played... That's because people bought them for show. Behind closed doors people were listening to Jazz.

The main reason people pay high prices is because they're scarce - plain and simple. i used to deal used BN in the '80s to pay my way through school, original 47th street label LPs would fetch big money back then and Japanese collectors were largely the reason. By in large collectors are not audiophiles per say and buy for different reasons other than 'sound'. upon visting a friend in Japan for the first time, I was flabbergasted by the walls of his flat covered in BN album covers - many of them the rearest titles.

Old BNs looked more played becuase their owners played them! over and over again. middle america was not buying these records back then. Aside from black folks and astute jazz lovers on the east and west coasts they never sold in what we think as great numbers. fellow collector speculate their owners used them like any dispensible item not taking special care never thinking they would be the classics they are that defined an entire genre of music.

 

[DaveyF]

Puroagave, that's a pretty accurate description. Most of my BN's are in Vg- to VG+ condition, I don't think I own one that is even M-. Many years back , a friend of mine who was also a collector of jazz, related how my classic collection was in far superior condition than his or my jazz collection.
To both of us, it was obvious that the classical hadn't been played even a tenth as much as the jazz.....

 

[MylesBAstor]

The main reason people pay high prices is because they're scarce - plain and simple. i used to deal used BN in the '80s to pay my way through school, original 47th street label LPs would fetch big money back then and Japanese collectors were largely the reason. By in large collectors are not audiophiles per say and buy for different reasons other than 'sound'. upon visting a friend in Japan for the first time, I was flabbergasted by the walls of his flat covered in BN album covers - many of them the rearest titles.

Old BNs looked more played becuase their owners played them! over and over again. middle america was not buying these records back then. Aside from black folks and astute jazz lovers on the east and west coasts they never sold in what we think as great numbers. fellow collector speculate their owners used them like any dispensible item not taking special care never thinking they would be the classics they are that defined an entire genre of music.

I remember the days of Japanese bus tours bringing collectors to Princeton Record Exchange (in its heyday). I also remember visiting in the mid to late'80s, a small, hole-in-the-wall record store in Brighton, UK and the owner telling me how he basically shipped 80% of the albums to Japan.

From what I understood, one reason for the Japanese demand was there were little or no goods coming into Japan post-WWII and jazz aficianados missed out on the '40s-60s jazz, etc albums. BNs etc never made it to Japanese shores.

 

[mdabb]

As I wrote in a recent piece, the Blue Notes were according to Steve Hoffman, who's been involved in the remastering for Chad and Joe/Ron, "overloaded," giving them their characteristic sound To my ears, the Impulses are far better sounding--though one can't necessarily judge by the LP release, only by the tape. Different artists, different tastes, different jazz styles, etc.

Sorry for the late response...

Do you happen to have a link to your article ???

I also agree (from what I have personally), the original Impulses are indeed fine sounding albums. They do have a fuller, open, and "there" quality. I just happen to think, although I'm not looking to make a blanket statement here, that folks in the audiophile community happen to overlook the "intentional Blue Note" sound. The finished product that the consumer purchased were not intended to sound "live" or "audiophile" in nature. Do original Blue Note titles sound better on consumer equipment from that era ??? Since most speakers were a single full-range driver, I would have to guess Blue Note's sounded pretty nice in that mid-range frequency band back in the day.

I'm a subscriber to the Music Matters' Blue Note series, and have every title to date, as well as a number of titles cherry picked from the Analog Production series . It certainly is nice to have the Blue Note titles in "full-range". I also have nine original Blue Note titles, although three are the same title, and all are in various condition. However, I have been fortunate to find all of the originals locally and for not much money. I also have a bunch of the "RVG" and Japanese CD's. Some days I prefer a bit of nostalgia, but for the most part I put on the MM & AP re-issue's. I'm a collector, music-listener, and audiophile (cough).... and go about each hobby as such.

I would definitely check out your article if available.

 

[mdabb]

The main reason people pay high prices is because they're scarce - plain and simple. i used to deal used BN in the '80s to pay my way through school, original 47th street label LPs would fetch big money back then and Japanese collectors were largely the reason. By in large collectors are not audiophiles per say and buy for different reasons other than 'sound'. upon visting a friend in Japan for the first time, I was flabbergasted by the walls of his flat covered in BN album covers - many of them the rearest titles.

Old BNs looked more played becuase their owners played them! over and over again. middle america was not buying these records back then. Aside from black folks and astute jazz lovers on the east and west coasts they never sold in what we think as great numbers. fellow collector speculate their owners used them like any dispensible item not taking special care never thinking they would be the classics they are that defined an entire genre of music.

Sorry for the late response...

Certainly the bottom line is their rarity/condition... Then again I have number of great Jazz records that are harder to find, that do not fetch the price tag of most original Blue Notes. Blue Note (as I'm sure you are aware) was the "premiere" Jazz label of it's day. If you were on Blue Note you had arrived... just sayin'. My point being and as you stated most people buying these original Blue Note's are not audiophiles.

... and certainly "most" people didn't take care of their records back in the day, then again they weren't given the impression that one day they would be valuable either.

As for who "were" and "weren't buying these records back in the day... well I guess that would depend on your definition of "middle America". Jazz was at it's peek during the late 50's through 60's and very much "Pop" music of the day. However white folks were indeed the majority of persons buying these records, as well as the majority of people going to "Jazz Clubs". After the gig was over, musicians would go to the real spot for the real show. Jazz clubs and performances were through-out America, and many musicians worked the track before playing NYC.

Although I live in N.E. Ohio I am actually closer to Pittsburgh, PA than Cleveland. I look for original Jazz records in my area whenever I get the chance. National Record Mart was a chain store that started in Pittsburgh and spread out over a number of U.S. states. If you had a NRM you were able to purchase Blue Note records, they weren't hard to come by if a person was looking for them. Now if we are talking about the pre-war Jazz scene...

 

[jazdoc]

Take a look at this mint Jackie McLean & Bill Hardman original Prestige, $2,080 with more than 24 hours to go...



http://www.ebay.com/itm/JACKIE-MCLE...c_on_Vinyl&hash=item43ab25e652#ht_1646wt_1034

 

[MylesBAstor]

Take a look at this mint Jackie McLean & Bill Hardman original Prestige, $2,080 with more than 24 hours to go...



http://www.ebay.com/itm/JACKIE-MCLE...c_on_Vinyl&hash=item43ab25e652#ht_1646wt_1034

All this guy's LPs are going for big bucks

 

[Johnny Vinyl]

All this guy's LPs are going for big bucks

But why? That's just stupid to pay those kind of prices.

 

[MylesBAstor]

But why? That's just stupid to pay those kind of prices.

We've talked a bit about this before. Number one: people in Asia are buying these albums in part because these jazz albums never made it overseas post-WWII.

 

[Johnny Vinyl]

We've talked a bit about this before. Number one: people in Asia are buying these albums in part because these jazz albums never made it overseas post-WWII.

I can appreciate that...I guess. Hey ...more power to them if they can afford it!