Hi
Audiophiles have had an interesting relationship with bass reproduction. I will not go too long on this I can only say that lately they have become more understanding of the importance of bass in general (say from 200 to 1 Hz) in the reproduction of music. My personal observation is that the cleaner the bas the cleaner the rest of the spectrum. Better bass reproduction allows a better representation of the treble for example, a weird psycho-acoustics phenomenon.
I am not sure what drove this; I believe Home Theater has a lot to do with this, much more so that we, audiophiles, would care to admit. Maybe car audio too, since car fanatics have taken bass reproduction to an exalted level whatever we, audiophile, may want to think of these subwoofers on wheels … When they go by and shake the whole house, I am sure deep, very deep inside, some audiophiles wonder why their subs and speakers aren’t doing the same when some music clearly demand it, NO I am not talking about Hip-Hop. If Hovhaness Mount Helen Symphony on Delos doesn’t shake your house and your bowels, then you weren’t listening to the Mount Helen Symphony... The whole point of this particular symphony is to make you think about a volcanic eruption and with the right system it delivers!!
So reluctantly and no almost proudly audiophiles are using subwoofers and there is a plethora of subwoofers. Of course with the usual audiophiles’ claims, hyperboles, half-truths and myths: Among these:
… Big subwoofers are slow and will never match the “speed” of smaller subs
It impossible to integrate subwoofers with mains
Subwoofers “smear” ……….. Replace the dots with your favorite audiophile term …its Christmas day you are free to do it...
Thus the prices of subwoofers and their quality. All subs are not created equal; there are better subs than others... There is a type of subs that is almost rejected by the audiophile community. It happens to be the least expensive subs in most instances with respect to the performance: The Infinite Baffle (IB) subwoofer. I think only one member here has an IB. Amir in one post asks for the price of the subs… I will venture a number for JonFo who has this sub, not more than 5K and likely half of that … IB outperform very easily any commercial subs you care to mention for a fraction of their prices. I like to do a little arithmetic for IBs just to illustrate the point. Let’s take a superlative subs such as the JL Audio Gotham... About $13,000. For that price one can built an IB that would go in the single digit at 130 dB in a 20 X 30 X 15 (feet) room. You would also add a sophisticated digital EQ system that outperforms any you can find in ANY commercial sub and likely have about 10,000 watts of power on this sub for the price … As for the quality of IB bass it has to be heard to be really understood. It is so good that subsequently all subs sound …well .. Slow and fat in comparison. IBs are not difficult to make. Rather easy as matter of fact. One problem is real estate. IBs require an empty space. Other problems are sound leakage and structural vibration. Any good subs would create such problem, IBs take it to a different level. The sneer about IB from many audiophiles, is that they are not interested in “shaking the house”… This is not what IB do , they are however capable of such, more so than other inside the music room , commercial subs…
A few numbers: Take for example an IB with four 18 inch
Driver Cost $2000 for the 4. You would get equally good result with drivers for half the price…
Amp cost $3000 for about 4000 watts you can get more power for half the price. You don’t need an audiophile-grade amplifier for this purpose, any commercial capable of high power at low frequency is good enough for the purpose: QSC, Crown, even Behringer etc and before you jump, these are usually superior to any amplifier you are likely to find in the most celebrated or expensive subwoofers
$2000 Drop in any EQ you would like to hear although the lowly behringer DCX-2496 at $300 will do a job to match any audiophile subwoofer tuning apparatus you want to think of. It takes time to learn but results are worth it
$4000 for construction if you hire a contractor.
In other word if you have even modest DIY skills and a few hours to spare an IB sub is doable and a $5000 IB subs will surpass in performance and sound quality ANY commercial subs you can name , think of or spend your money on. Not opinion, people, fact, objective and subjective is there is such a thing as a subjective fact ? but allow me such in the spirit of the holidays
An IB sub with 4 15 AE subs such as those JonFo use will go flat (Eq'd ) to 5 Hz at 120 dB in a 30 X 20 X 15 room. Easy clean and with power to spare and if you think it will be “slow”, an IB audition is required in your audiophile journey. IME and that of many including Richard Vandersteen, the best bass you will ever hear …
Oh ! One more thing they are invisible.. They are usually not in the room … Invisible... So why aren’t they more popular?
Opinions are welcomed
Happy Holidays to you all …
Audiophiles have had an interesting relationship with bass reproduction. I will not go too long on this I can only say that lately they have become more understanding of the importance of bass in general (say from 200 to 1 Hz) in the reproduction of music. My personal observation is that the cleaner the bas the cleaner the rest of the spectrum. Better bass reproduction allows a better representation of the treble for example, a weird psycho-acoustics phenomenon.
I am not sure what drove this; I believe Home Theater has a lot to do with this, much more so that we, audiophiles, would care to admit. Maybe car audio too, since car fanatics have taken bass reproduction to an exalted level whatever we, audiophile, may want to think of these subwoofers on wheels … When they go by and shake the whole house, I am sure deep, very deep inside, some audiophiles wonder why their subs and speakers aren’t doing the same when some music clearly demand it, NO I am not talking about Hip-Hop. If Hovhaness Mount Helen Symphony on Delos doesn’t shake your house and your bowels, then you weren’t listening to the Mount Helen Symphony... The whole point of this particular symphony is to make you think about a volcanic eruption and with the right system it delivers!!
So reluctantly and no almost proudly audiophiles are using subwoofers and there is a plethora of subwoofers. Of course with the usual audiophiles’ claims, hyperboles, half-truths and myths: Among these:
… Big subwoofers are slow and will never match the “speed” of smaller subs
It impossible to integrate subwoofers with mains
Subwoofers “smear” ……….. Replace the dots with your favorite audiophile term …its Christmas day you are free to do it...
Thus the prices of subwoofers and their quality. All subs are not created equal; there are better subs than others... There is a type of subs that is almost rejected by the audiophile community. It happens to be the least expensive subs in most instances with respect to the performance: The Infinite Baffle (IB) subwoofer. I think only one member here has an IB. Amir in one post asks for the price of the subs… I will venture a number for JonFo who has this sub, not more than 5K and likely half of that … IB outperform very easily any commercial subs you care to mention for a fraction of their prices. I like to do a little arithmetic for IBs just to illustrate the point. Let’s take a superlative subs such as the JL Audio Gotham... About $13,000. For that price one can built an IB that would go in the single digit at 130 dB in a 20 X 30 X 15 (feet) room. You would also add a sophisticated digital EQ system that outperforms any you can find in ANY commercial sub and likely have about 10,000 watts of power on this sub for the price … As for the quality of IB bass it has to be heard to be really understood. It is so good that subsequently all subs sound …well .. Slow and fat in comparison. IBs are not difficult to make. Rather easy as matter of fact. One problem is real estate. IBs require an empty space. Other problems are sound leakage and structural vibration. Any good subs would create such problem, IBs take it to a different level. The sneer about IB from many audiophiles, is that they are not interested in “shaking the house”… This is not what IB do , they are however capable of such, more so than other inside the music room , commercial subs…
A few numbers: Take for example an IB with four 18 inch
Driver Cost $2000 for the 4. You would get equally good result with drivers for half the price…
Amp cost $3000 for about 4000 watts you can get more power for half the price. You don’t need an audiophile-grade amplifier for this purpose, any commercial capable of high power at low frequency is good enough for the purpose: QSC, Crown, even Behringer etc and before you jump, these are usually superior to any amplifier you are likely to find in the most celebrated or expensive subwoofers
$2000 Drop in any EQ you would like to hear although the lowly behringer DCX-2496 at $300 will do a job to match any audiophile subwoofer tuning apparatus you want to think of. It takes time to learn but results are worth it
$4000 for construction if you hire a contractor.
In other word if you have even modest DIY skills and a few hours to spare an IB sub is doable and a $5000 IB subs will surpass in performance and sound quality ANY commercial subs you can name , think of or spend your money on. Not opinion, people, fact, objective and subjective is there is such a thing as a subjective fact ? but allow me such in the spirit of the holidays
An IB sub with 4 15 AE subs such as those JonFo use will go flat (Eq'd ) to 5 Hz at 120 dB in a 30 X 20 X 15 room. Easy clean and with power to spare and if you think it will be “slow”, an IB audition is required in your audiophile journey. IME and that of many including Richard Vandersteen, the best bass you will ever hear …
Oh ! One more thing they are invisible.. They are usually not in the room … Invisible... So why aren’t they more popular?
Opinions are welcomed
Happy Holidays to you all …