I must be an idiot - need help

[treitz3]

Ouch! I don't see how these cables could have shorted together, however after looking at those photos? I would contact Nordost to see about some re-termination of the ends with something that doesn't do that. Wow, that's bad and has got to be degrading the signal something awful. Here's there contact information if you need it;

Nordost Corporation
93 Bartzak Drive
Holliston, MA 01746

Tel: +1 508 893 0100 US Toll Free: +1 800 836 2750 Fax: +1 508 893 0115
Email: info@nordost.com Or you can contact then directly here>>> http://www.nordost.com/contact

Yours is an extreme case of oxidation that some cleaners will remove and treat but not for long. I would recommend replacement and not from any local shop, especially the shop that installed these. As far as the question about the tubed pre earlier this morning, please disregard. My thought process would have blown the input transistor and not the output transistor of the amplifier.

Tom

 

[NorthStar]

---Hi George,

If I was you I would redo all my speaker wire's connections (terminals).

1. Recut your Nordost cables (take about an inch or two off, from both ends).
2. File all your spades with a a small precision file.
...Or buy eight new and better ones (inexpensive anyway).
3. Reconnect the spades to the cables (roughly half inch of exposed wire).
4. Retube (shrinking tubing) everything.
...Can be add at the end as the spade lugs are small enough to allow the tubing to slip through.
* If using new and larger spade lugs, insert the tubing before the lugs.

_____________________

George, one aspect of our audio hobby is maintenance. :b
In particular with speaker's wires and interconnects. ...Dust too.

Anything else?

 

[Soundminded]

Tom, the original pre-amp was a GRAAF WFB One, it's tube with tube phono and it's working better than ever now thanks to some new tubes.

.........................................................................................................................................

I put my digital multimeter to use this morning and diagnosed the problem within a minute.

The root cause of the problem: the speaker wires as many suspected. However tarnish was the real culprit.

Please before passing any judgement take into consideration that I've tried in vain to prevent this problem from ever forming in the first place. I've tried two cleaners which had no affect. I've even considered sandpaper/emery cloth as a solution to remove this terrible blacking.

Background story: The original Nordost Z-Plug Banana's fractured because my speaker wire was about an inch too short, the right angle turn at each end was too much stress over a long period of time. The solution was to have the local Hi-End dealer put spade type terminal connections at each end. However these connectors tarnished turning black over a few years. When I went to the store and reported the condition they said that sounded strange. I asked for a recommend cleaner, they said they don't recommend liquid cleaners as they leave a residue which crystallizes and only causes more problems.

I've tried burnishing and rubbing with audio wipes, different audio approved cleaners, nothing has made a dent in the black coating.

Put the digital multimeter probes to the clean silver parts and get a good reading of about 7.6 Ohms when hooked to the main speakers. Connect directly to the speaker with the speaker wires detached and get a roughly similar number.

Put the digital multimeter black/ground probe to the clean silver part, and the red/positive probe to the blackened part and you cannot get a stable reading, it jumps all over the place at random and never settles down.

A picture is worth a thousand words........................here are a couple of thousands words.
http://s184.photobucket.com/albums/x295/kach22i/Stereo/

QUESTION: How do I clean these connections, and how do I keep them clean?

Yea, I've never seen anything like it either.

What aggravated this condition (in addition to the tarnish) is the solid brass spade to banana jumpers which I had to use to connect to the solid state Dynaco ST-120A amp. There has got to be a better and more secure way to connect to that amp. I'm open to suggestions. Space is tight and limited.

First of all, there is a systematic way to troubleshoot equipment to find where the fault lies especially in a case like yours. Start with a mono source by using two wye cables to jumper the L & R channels together. Then begin troubleshooting starting at the output with the the speakers. Swap the speakers. This will confirm or eliminate that's where the problem lies. Then move backwards to the speaker wires, then the power amplifier channels, the interconnects, the preamp channels, and eventually if all else is good remove the L+R jumper.

Those cable terminations look awful. There are much better connectors. Personally I like banana jacks. The chrome plated type are cheap and never seem to tarnish. If you are going to use spade lugs, Sta-Kon has some very good ones and an excellent crimping tool. Again chrome plated is fine. If you are going to use bare wire, tin the end with solder. Gold plated crimp on connectors should also be very reliable.

Just a thought. Silver tarnishes in the presence of sulphur. Anyone in your house fond of cooking eggs? I'd try cleaning those connectors with sliver polish. IMO silver is not a good choice for wire or connectors the added cost aside. Almost nothing will tarnish gold.

 

[kach22i]

Just a thought. Silver tarnishes in the presence of sulphur..........

Yep, my stereo shop guy got back to me and found out the same thing. I'm now operating on the assumption that the pilot lights on my old stove, half of which do not work are responsible.

Looks like I'll be restoring an old gas stove next.

 

[microstrip]

---Hi George,

If I was you I would redo all my speaker wire's connections (terminals).

(...)

Anything else?

Bob,
Unless you are a very skilled man, have access to the proper tools or both of them, I would not recommend this alternative.
If you praise your cables and depending on cost (you should ask first send them to Nordost . Alternatively have them serviced by a knowledgeable person, using original Nordost terminations.

Some cables are easy to re-terminate, but these Nordost ribbon types are not one of them.

 

[kach22i]

As seen on TV, Tarn-X really works!

Just follow the directions on the back, it's a very selective list of materials you can use it on. However, they do make other products to cover those areas too.

http://s184.photobucket.com/albums/x295/kach22i/Stereo/

These are AudioQuest spades by the way. The low mass Z-Plug bananas of Nordost are a fairly delicate work of art compared to these rakes.

I've got some brass plugs to clean up, Brasso?

 

[Soundminded]

Yep, my stereo shop guy got back to me and found out the same thing. I'm now operating on the assumption that the pilot lights on my old stove, half of which do not work are responsible.

Looks like I'll be restoring an old gas stove next.

Because natural gas is odorless and and extremely dangerous if there's a gas leak, the sulphur bearing compound methyl mercaptain also known as methanethiol is added to impart its characteristic odor of rotten eggs. Over time even the slightest leak will tarnish silver.

 

[NorthStar]

Bob,
Unless you are a very skilled man, have access to the proper tools or both of them, I would not recommend this alternative.
If you praise your cables and depending on cost (you should ask first send them to Nordost . Alternatively have them serviced by a knowledgeable person, using original Nordost terminations.

Some cables are easy to re-terminate, but these Nordost ribbon types are not one of them.

-----You might have a real good point there Micro; as I'm not familiar with those Nordost (ribbon) speaker wires.

* By the way, I am quite skilled at making, fixing all things electronic conductive components. :b
But you're right; a true professional electronic technician has a bigger advantage (tons of proven experience, plus all the specialized tools of the trade).

 

[NorthStar]

Yep, my stereo shop guy got back to me and found out the same thing. I'm now operating on the assumption that the pilot lights on my old stove, half of which do not work are responsible.

Looks like I'll be restoring an old gas stove next.

-----

 

[NorthStar]

...

I've got some brass plugs to clean up, Brasso?

----- Fo sur.

 

[Soundminded]

Yep, my stereo shop guy got back to me and found out the same thing. I'm now operating on the assumption that the pilot lights on my old stove, half of which do not work are responsible.

Looks like I'll be restoring an old gas stove next.

You could write a letter to the manufacturer thanking him by telling him how his defective cable design may have saved your life.

 

[kach22i]

AudioQuest, the maker of the silver clad spades got back to the audio store people.

Told us to clean the spades every six months with Tarn-X.

I would not call silver defective, I will say it's not gold.

 

[NorthStar]

---Silver tarnishes and requires constant maintenance (even more so by the ocean).

Gold is more simple; that's why it keeps getting higher value on the financial markets.

Get gold! :b

 

[microstrip]

---Silver tarnishes and requires constant maintenance (even more so by the ocean).

Gold is more simple; that's why it keeps getting higher value on the financial markets.

Get gold! :b

Neutrik, Cannon and Amphenol - and surely a lot more - manufacture XLR silver plated connectors and plugs for professional applications. As far as I know some cable manufacturers prefer silver plated contacts because the process of gold plating assures a long and reliable contact, but does not "sound" as good as silver plated contacts.

 

[NorthStar]

---But in the long run Silver loses its advantage, and Gold takes over. :b

 

[Soundminded]

Neutrik, Cannon and Amphenol - and surely a lot more - manufacture XLR silver plated connectors and plugs for professional applications. As far as I know some cable manufacturers prefer silver plated contacts because the process of gold plating assures a long and reliable contact, but does not "sound" as good as silver plated contacts.

So silver connectors sounds great until one day they don't sound at all. Do you realize how silly that sounds? Each day just a small incremental buildup of tarnish changes the contact resistance and with it the sound ever so slightly it can't be distinguished from the day before or the day after. On which day does the tarnish built up to the point where it sounds best?

 

[microstrip]

So silver connectors sounds great until one day they don't sound at all. Do you realize how silly that sounds? Each day just a small incremental buildup of tarnish changes the contact resistance and with it the sound ever so slightly it can't be distinguished from the day before or the day after. On which day does the tarnish built up to the point where it sounds best?

The silver Neutrik XLR connectors of my almost 40 years old Studer A80 are still sounding great and I never cleaned them. As I have old cables with silver connectors that still look nice and a few that after a few years look tarnished I am tempted to think that the good silver connectors have some kind of additive to the silver that prevents tarnishing.
The same thing applies to gold plated connectors - some keep looking great for a long time, others look miserable after some time. May be the quality of manufacture is also of great importance.

BTW, my main point was that if three known manufacturers for the quality of their professional connectors choose silver for their pins and sockets there must be some advantage in it - I am not a metallurgist. May be something related with self cleaning the contacts when they are mutually scrubbed when inserted?

 

[kach22i]

........... I am tempted to think that the good silver connectors have some kind of additive to the silver that prevents tarnishing.

If they do not have an amber hue to them which would indicate a gold mix, then I would suspect even a denser additive such as platinum .

I'm just guessing, I have no experience in this, just doing a little reasoning.

 

[Soundminded]

Considering the lunacy in the high end audiophile market, I'm surprised nobody has brought up the very real phenomenon that occurs when different metals are in direct physical contact. Well you audiophiles, what about it? Maybe this is a whole new area for a new class of audiophile product, an adaptor to connect one type of metal terminal, jack, conductor, to another without any electrical interaction. Now how much would audiophiles pay for such devices, $10? $100$? $1000? Who makes the best ones? Which sound least bi-metalic? Ooooh, I can hear the warmth these devices will create already...in my bank account! Ka-ching! Ka-ching! Ka-ching! Sounds like an even better idea than those old 3 cent wooden volume control knobs some guy tried to sell for $500 each.

 

[microstrip]

Considering the lunacy in the high end audiophile market, I'm surprised nobody has brought up the very real phenomenon that occurs when different metals are in direct physical contact. Well you audiophiles, what about it? Maybe this is a whole new area for a new class of audiophile product, an adaptor to connect one type of metal terminal, jack, conductor, to another without any electrical interaction. Now how much would audiophiles pay for such devices, $10? $100$? $1000? Who makes the best ones? Which sound least bi-metalic? Ooooh, I can hear the warmth these devices will create already...in my bank account! Ka-ching! Ka-ching! Ka-ching! Sounds like an even better idea than those old 3 cent wooden volume control knobs some guy tried to sell for $500 each.

Sorry to tell you that the idea is not new - this has been brought up to high-end long ago. You will have to work harder ...
Picking the misleading and poorly founded devices to attack the whole high-end is an usual tactic, I hope you can do better. No one pretends that everything is perfect in high-end.