I believe someone on this forum knows a guy who has 150 tt's, 500 carts, and has spent £100k+ on Platinum in his power amps.
Help me w/reservations about taking the R2R tape plunge...
- Thread starter spiritofmusic
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I believe someone on this forum knows a guy who has 150 tt's, 500 carts, and has spent £100k+ on Platinum in his power amps.
I suppose the ADC's and DAC's used play a large role as well. I don't think we have reached the limit to how good they can be built yet. Opinions on the matter would definitely differ if different vinyl playback gear and DAC's are used in the comparison. If Merging decided to build a cost no object ADC, I'm sure they could make it better than the Hapi.
It would be impossible to improve upon tape itself if the source of the digital copy is the tape. But I think it's possible to improve on the tape with the latest digital recording gear. But of course, for older recordings that are already on tape, it's too late for that. I heard a rumour we aren't too far away from being able to record in multibit DSD. This would allow editing to DSD without the need for conversion to DxD. This will be the ultimate.
Basically NO tech backup in the UK. If I buy a Sonorus from Holland, or a UHA or modded Studer from North America, I pretty much sail on these uncharted waters on my own.
I predict page upon page upon page on these forums, debating the minutiae of dsd x4 versus dsd x 4 multibit. And back to good old tape again.
Audio is a Hell of a torturous Mobius Loop.
long term ratio;
40% Digital--mostly while multi-tasking or when close to sleep time..
50% Vinyl
10% Tape---I only own approx. 150 albums (mostly 2 reels) on 1/4" or 1/2" 15ips tape.
lately and likely temporary;
75% digital with my new digital toys.
20% vinyl
5% tape.
That is true but you are never going to get access to those master tapes. What you get is a second generation copy of said tape. The master tape also most likely was not a 1/4 like you will be buying.
There is no way you can jump from LP to tape. With 0.00001% of content available on tape that you can buy on LP, no way can it remotely replace your record collection. As I said, tape should be purchased as an adjunct to your everyday system. Think of it as special liquor you get out for special occasion. You are not going to have it with every meal.
It shouldn't be really. If you are heavily into this hobby, then you should get a tape deck at some point. It will be an amazing conversation piece when friends come over. You will be able to enjoy playing content on it that you can buy. And the lovely total experience of watching it play that cannot be replicated in any other format. And importantly, you will never be told, "well, you don't know what you are missing with tape."
Amirm, you misunderstand, I wasn't meaning that, but my head exploding due to the overload of analog goodness above and beyong that of vinyl.
Your final comments are not sufficient I'm afraid. $20k on a deck and ten titles needs a tad more justification.
As I said, I've concluded that the justification is in the existence, no matter how cult within a cult it all is.
It exists, it's bloody magnificent, and if you have the attributes of cash, focus, patience and understanding, it is w/out peer. Do I have these attributes myself?...
Bruce B
WBF Founding Member, Pro Audio Production Member
As long as human life on earth still exist's, we will continue to innovate, and improve upon things. I think we finally just reached the point of understanding all the detrimental effects of poor SDM/SRC, jitter and all the digital artifacts that cause digital to lose the magic of analog. Q1 of 2016 is going to be an exciting time for digital. Some game changing stuff is in the works. By 2020 I firmly believe everyone who gives digital an honest chance will be hardcore converts.
might that be the Rockport enthusiast in the UK? I know him. I know he has lots of Koetsu's and tone arms. and those platinum amps. did not know he had 150 tt's.
or maybe the gentleman in China who have the building full of stuff?
hey; we've got the guy in Brazil with 5 million records.
I have a confession guys.
My GF has always been totally understanding of my spending, but I'm struggling to get this concept past her, and she's right to make me justify this purchase if a choice ever arises. Esp since I'm thinking of spending a large amount of Moolah building a dedicated room.
She has temporarily renamed "What's Best Forum" as "What's Best For 'Em" - answer "no R2R!"
Good question...I was wondering that myself, and am not surprised by Bruce's answer.
Last time I heard anything close to what Bruce experiences daily is when I visited Tony and then Ed Pong? later that day.
Blizzard, I admire your optimism. But you're forgetting the tactile, visceral thrill of holding albums, reading liner notes, spooling/threading tapes, watching lp's and reels spin, the fetish quality inherent in care and storage, the size, the pop culture references, the fact that the Golden Age of recorded music is tape and vinyl's kingdom, the screwed up/non logical nature of humans, cash to burn. these are all intrinsic to what analog other than the sheer quality is greater than the sum of it's parts. and those parts are too many to mention (my list could go on).
You can still do all of that while enjoying even higher fidelity digital
Someone needs to make a fake turntable and R2R that looks like it's playing the album, but is really sourcing the data digitally. It may just be the best analog anyone's ever heard
You can still do all of that while enjoying even higher fidelity digital
Ha ha! I knew the vinyl heads wouldn't like that one. All joking aside I think the biggest problem we face today is not digital vs analog, it's the state of modern rock and roll. It's like nails on the chalkboard and all sounds the same. Whatever happened to the 60's and 70's real rock that emerged from deep down in the musicians soul? Now it's just cut, pasted and engineered for a target audience based on market research to bring in the most $.
Ah, now something we CAN agree on!
But remember, all that "real" rock was put onto tape (and i SWEAR i can "hear" the tubes in Led Zep 2), the cut and pasted stuff is, well, cut and pasted direct to digital.
If they only had today's modern digital recording gear back then......
Just imagine how vividly we would be able to hear the tubes in Jimmy's Marshall stack! Without all that background hiss.I need to find a Delorean so I can head back to the 60's with a Merging Horus and Pyramix
I'll make a public confession, I've never been so nervous/anxious/unsure about a direction in audio, as I am in considering tape.
I have recently been considering a paradigm shift to horns, and much of what I've heard pushes my pleasure centres, but there are so many reasons putting me off, from lack of home trial, to tube noise issues, and I'm calm in my decision not to follow.
Similarly, I'm likely to turn down an uber tt upgrade. I'm getting such brilliant performance from my giant killer rig, and there are steps I can take to maxx it out further (Symposium Acoustics Quantum Signature shelf and Spiers And Robertson air table), that again the need to go eg GP Monaco or Saskia is abated.
I'm intrigued by DSD, and x2, x4, and a GG is under consideration, but I remember that I can get 99% of the classical I want on lp - and the other 1% on tape LOL. And my Eera Tentation cdp is so adept at rbcd, again the drive to go GG even just in ripping pcm or upscaling to dsd is not compelling.
Upgrades I will go for are a move up in my tubed linestage, and the new Zu flagship spkrs when they're finally released - these can happen, but no rush.
BUT...tape is as a concept totally compelling, and depite the lack of material, i'm struggling to turn away from it, nowhere near as easy as my other refusals.
Anxiety is partly related to it's very inpenetrableness as a journey, cost/benefit ratio - but it's more mental, a feeling that the chasm between the apex of sheer analog joy to the reality that there's an almost fetishistic quality of "club membership" is enormous, and the whole enterprise doesn't feel entirely sane. A sense of extravagance for extravagance sake.
I have recently been considering a paradigm shift to horns, and much of what I've heard pushes my pleasure centres, but there are so many reasons putting me off, from lack of home trial, to tube noise issues, and I'm calm in my decision not to follow.
Similarly, I'm likely to turn down an uber tt upgrade. I'm getting such brilliant performance from my giant killer rig, and there are steps I can take to maxx it out further (Symposium Acoustics Quantum Signature shelf and Spiers And Robertson air table), that again the need to go eg GP Monaco or Saskia is abated.
I'm intrigued by DSD, and x2, x4, and a GG is under consideration, but I remember that I can get 99% of the classical I want on lp - and the other 1% on tape LOL. And my Eera Tentation cdp is so adept at rbcd, again the drive to go GG even just in ripping pcm or upscaling to dsd is not compelling.
Upgrades I will go for are a move up in my tubed linestage, and the new Zu flagship spkrs when they're finally released - these can happen, but no rush.
BUT...tape is as a concept totally compelling, and depite the lack of material, i'm struggling to turn away from it, nowhere near as easy as my other refusals.
Anxiety is partly related to it's very inpenetrableness as a journey, cost/benefit ratio - but it's more mental, a feeling that the chasm between the apex of sheer analog joy to the reality that there's an almost fetishistic quality of "club membership" is enormous, and the whole enterprise doesn't feel entirely sane. A sense of extravagance for extravagance sake.
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Music is homogenized for the masses and like most other regular consumer goods, it's not meant to retain value, but instead viewed as disposable for short-term consumption. It's a 15-minutes of fame strategy.
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