Great concert rock systems your've heard

[GaryProtein]

Audioarcher, +1 - I saw Clockwork Angels by Rush at the O2 in London last year, and it was truly HORRENDOUS. Boomy sub bass, shredding treble and non existent midrange. You know you're in trouble when Neil Peart's drums sound more like the flight cases they are packed in!
That's it for me for gigs in big arenas - $150 to be aurally assaulted is a BIG waste of hard earned cash.
Listening to the sublime Exit…Stage Left Japanese vinyl pressing on my excellent home system takes me back to an era when live arena rock was loud but DYNAMIC, alas v.little anymore.

Why do you guys even bother going to rock concerts?

You are almost guaranteed the sound will be bad and your ears will take a beating, and what's the point of going if you wear ear protection to block out the sound??????

 

[audioarcher]

That's a good question. I went to the Rush concert because I had not seen them live before. I had heard that they put on a good show and have the talent to play live well. It was the decision to jack up the levels and tonal balance that ruined it. The actual musicianship was very good. Steely Dan were very good as well, just too loud.

As for ear plugs, I have seen some on the market that are suppose to cut the sound evenly across the frequency range. Not sure how well these work, but it's got to be better than damaging your hearing.

 

[esldude]

Why do you guys even bother going to rock concerts?

You are almost guaranteed the sound will be bad and your ears will take a beating, and what's the point of going if you wear ear protection to block out the sound??????

Somebody who gets it. You might understand my reply earlier in the thread. This is one of those cases where you don't want to re-create the live sound. Even the badly recorded sound can be better. Well recorded rock (which does happen sometimes) can of course be very good. The Absolute Sound for rock isn't a good idea.

 

[Robh3606]

Why do you guys even bother going to rock concerts?

You are almost guaranteed the sound will be bad and your ears will take a beating, and what's the point of going if you wear ear protection to block out the sound??????

That really depends. I go to shows all the time, it's where you sit or stand, the band, the guy running the board and the type of music. Not all shows are killer loud either. I just saw Johnette Napalitano Concrete Blond and Alanis Morsette do acoustic shows and it was great. Same with Steve Hackett doing Genesis Revisited. Saw him in 2013 in one venue and 2 weeks ago in a different venue. Sounded great in both venues although louder at the recent show mainly because of where my seat was. King Crimson was also very good where I was sitting although in comparison Styx was not so good. Agree about Rush I saw them at an outside venue Jones Beach and the sound was quite good but loud as hell. Listen to the DVD's of the tours Time Machine and Clockwork Angels. They are compressed and you need to get loud to the get the balance right problem is it's fatiguing. Went to see Lorde on the pier in NYC and the sound was really good. Zappa plays Zappa at the Brooklyn Bowl was hit or miss depending on where you were. Up close it was good further back got muddy. Best thing to do take a little walk around if you can and find the sweet spot. Most of the venues I go to are small, stadium shows are real hit or miss.

Rob

 

[Robh3606]

My active DIY set-up does a good job.

Rob

 

[audioarcher]

yep. doubt that the master engineer has 5 or 6 different sets of speakers he uses to create the sound he thinks you will want to hear! aha hah

So you think mastering engineers master every genre the same way? This is the ideal but does not happen in real life. Plus the engineer also needs to make the musician, and label happy with the end product as well. This causes large compromises in many cases.

 

[JackD201]

Why do you guys even bother going to rock concerts?

You are almost guaranteed the sound will be bad and your ears will take a beating, and what's the point of going if you wear ear protection to block out the sound??????

I go for the energy of the communal experience. It is something I enjoy even with ear protection. I use Etymotic plugs.

 

[caesar]

I would also go with MBL, followed by Wilson alexandria.

But isn't the culprit of the components that cannot do this - be it speakers, sources, or electronics, a shortchanging of the bass and a spotlight of upper midrange / lower treble? And, as a designer, if you commit this error or make this design decision, how realistic will your blues sound?? jazz sound???? For guys who frequently attend jazz and blues clubs, unfortunately not very realistic.

 

[Robh3606]

But isn't the culprit of the components that cannot do this - be it speakers, sources, or electronics, a shortchanging of the bass and a spotlight of upper midrange / lower treble? And, as a designer, if you commit this error or make this design decision, how realistic will your blues sound?? jazz sound???? For guys who frequently attend jazz and blues clubs, unfortunately not very realistic.

I think it's more of an SPL issue than anything else especially in the mid-bass and lower say 100Hz and below. If you can't get the shudder in the bass pedals right it just won't be right no matter how loud you can go. There is so much power there in a live show. Without that solid lower foundation it will sound thin. My set-up has a rise below 100Hz is flat through the midrange and the rolls off a bit above 8k or so. I think many systems just can't do the SPL below 50Hz or so without running into problems.

Rob

 

[Johnny Vinyl]

All I have is what I have. It is far from the uber-expensive being discussed here, so does this mean I cannot enjoy or feel that whatever my system produces offers but a tiny look inside?

 

[JackD201]

Never about the money Johnny. Room, speaker for that room, amps for that speaker, best source you can afford. Sometimes, I'm in my room and and I tell myself "You set yourself up big time buddy." I've said it before and I'll say it again. I could live with a smaller room and a smaller system but hey, it's here so I'll enjoy it for as long as circumstances allow. I'll just blame that stress from my past profession for pushing me off the deep end!

 

[GaryProtein]

and then theres the first watt...... I agree that any speaker system should play any recorded music, and that does not mean it has to be as loud as the original either. Folks with huge systems have to turn them way up to get the balance of sound a small efficient speaker system gets with the first watt, big systems, hell they eat up most of the first watt where 30db of the dynamics are at, and its gone forever and so they need to be played louder to get a better bloom, and that's hi-fi not good sound imo. Rock bands I have always gone to hear are loud and bad sounding, at home, on the stereo, many sound pretty good. How can we produce the sound of huge speakers at our homes and think that is any good? Like was mentioned, buy pro gear and speakers and blast away at yourself, but don't invite me over cause I don't need it and never have. Loud does not mean dynamics nor detail, two things I like alot.

I can't say I agree with that. The number of watts you need isn't important. Some speakers are efficient and some gobble up power. It's the loudness that your ear hears that is important. A small speaker, efficient or not, producing 85 dB at the listening position will sound as loud and have the same balance in that spot as a large speaker system, efficient or not, producing 85 dB at the listening position in the same room.

The difference will be that the large system will sound the same in more listening positions in the room than the small speaker.

YMMV

 

[Joe Whip]

Madonna??????????

I was thinking the same thing there Bruce! You beat me to it.

 

[Joe Whip]

A friend of mine designs systems for large clubs and concert venues. 130+ dB is the rule.

Which is why I always bring earplugs to any venue with amplified music.

 

[Robh3606]

All I have is what I have. It is far from the uber-expensive being discussed here, so does this mean I cannot enjoy or feel that whatever my system produces offers but a tiny look inside?

Hello Johnny

Me too my systems are not crazy expensive by any means. As a matter of fact my cheapest, active set-up can do the best job as far as SPL levels and sheer gut power.

Rob

 

[Robh3606]

and then theres the first watt...... I agree that any speaker system should play any recorded music, and that does not mean it has to be as loud as the original either. Folks with huge systems have to turn them way up to get the balance of sound a small efficient speaker system gets with the first watt, big systems, hell they eat up most of the first watt where 30db of the dynamics are at, and its gone forever and so they need to be played louder to get a better bloom, and that's hi-fi not good sound imo. Rock bands I have always gone to hear are loud and bad sounding, at home, on the stereo, many sound pretty good. How can we produce the sound of huge speakers at our homes and think that is any good? Like was mentioned, buy pro gear and speakers and blast away at yourself, but don't invite me over cause I don't need it and never have. Loud does not mean dynamics nor detail, two things I like alot.

Small and efficient is bit of a contradiction. I agree in the sense that efficiency is a key and an important element but so is power handling. If you start with sensitivities in the 98db and higher range and the system can handle some real power you can have the best of both worlds. As far as Pro systems another way is to cherry pick the drivers and DIY. You can get quite a good sounding system that sounds balanced at that first watt but also can pound you to death if you like that front of the house body massage you get no where else.

Rob

 

[Johnny Vinyl]

Never about the money Johnny. Room, speaker for that room, amps for that speaker, best source you can afford.

Good to hear, because otherwise I'd be out of here.

Hello Johnny

Me too my systems are not crazy expensive by any means. As a matter of fact my cheapest, active set-up can do the best job as far as SPL levels and sheer gut power.

Rob

I've worked really hard at getting everything just right, and it's still somewhat of a work in progress, but I honestly don't think that one needs to have the best of the best to appreciate good rock music (or any other genre for that matter) to capture a truly satisfying experience. To me, the most important thing in audio (regardless of your budget) is to have enough interest to tailor a sound that satisfies your ears. You have to work at it........I have!

 

[Johnny Vinyl]

Dire Straits - Brothers In Arms (SACD).

Playing at -15dB. Room is 11x18. Acoustic treatments. System value....less than even one uber-expensive speaker. Good cables though!

Joy = Priceless!

 

[GaryProtein]

Dire Straits - Brothers In Arms (SACD).

Playing at -15dB. Room is 11x18. Acoustic treatments. System value....less than even one uber-expensive speaker. Good cables though!

Joy = Priceless!

That is a very good disk. I have to say, I like the Money for Nothing disk even better.

 

[allvinyl]

A little off topic but still applicable

To set the 'stage', I turned 21 in '71.

The first time I ever heard either Led Zep IV or Jethro Tull's Aqualung was LIVE, both in ChiTown. Need I say more... Oh yeah, before either there was this Hendrix guy as well... twice no less.

When Zep did Stairway that night, Plant quieted the crowd by sitting down on the front of the stage with his legs hanging over, paused to catch his breath, then said they'd like to slow things down with another new one off the new album. By the time the song was over, they were all in full roar and the crowd was delirious. I have replayed that in my head a million times over the years... still have the tix stub...

Tull's stage/the Opera House that night was totally dark on purpose so, save for the occasional Bic in the audience , you couldn't see your hand in front of your face. Then wham, all these lights on the stage to the opening bars of "Nothing is Easy" full bore. I still think that night's production was one of the best concert sound systems I've ever heard.

John