AC ...i am not applying my view. I am saying they are more linear when matched right. PM Bill if you want. I am not questioning what you heard. The 242 sounded less linear in your system. Does not mean they are. I have heard them sound less and more. You have heard them sound less, I don't deny that, but they can sound more. I hope that clarifies
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I still do not understand: if your GG is adjusted for use with 242 tubes, can you still use other tubes without any issues? 16db gain difference is quite a big number, so can this 242 gain adjustment create a mismatch for other tubes?
Thanks.
Thanks.
Does not seem to be the case. The special 45s have sounded great on my dac when compared to other Lampis, as has the PX25. But to give you an example, my dac with 242 did not sound right in dctom’s while his dac with 242 did (we did that compare). The point I am trying to get across is that it is a highly temperamental tube so if you just put it in your system and don’t like it, don’t assume that’s how it sounds.
The UK distributor planned to get his dac tuned to the special 45s and we will do a shoot at some point, though since he has high sensitivity horns I don’t expect mine to sound right. But we will be able to compare the 45s on his and mine.
I remember in one of the first shoots we did (there is a picture on this thread or another that I posted with multiple GG dacs), the 242 sounded downright dull and flabby
The UK distributor planned to get his dac tuned to the special 45s and we will do a shoot at some point, though since he has high sensitivity horns I don’t expect mine to sound right. But we will be able to compare the 45s on his and mine.
I remember in one of the first shoots we did (there is a picture on this thread or another that I posted with multiple GG dacs), the 242 sounded downright dull and flabby
No, it does not...
What are you meaning by linear? It seems you are assuming that higher output is more linear, electronics say usually it is the reverse with single ended tubes.
No, it does not...
What are you meaning by linear? It seems you are assuming that higher output is more linear, electronics say usually it is the reverse with single ended tubes.
By linear, there is a nice, clean, linear sound from the low frequencies to the high through the frequency range. Btw, you see much more of the music on either end, allowing for more decay of notes at the top and the bottom, more nuance, more texture. I am not at all correlating linearity to output. In this case it happens to be that way. I am not saying higher output is reason for its performance at all.
Look, on another thread I summarized my few WTF moments in audio:
1. First time I heard planars
2. First time I heard a good horn
3. First time I heard Western Electric set up at Munich
4. First time I appreciated good analog
5. First time I heard the power of Full ranges
6. First time I heard the 242s – that was at Bill’s.
7. First time I heard Tenor 75
Surely. But it is interesting to understand how you "tune" the Lampizator sound just changing tubes. It looks as if you are just adding a "preamplfier" type tube device in the chain of a good DAC. BTW, does the Lampizator GG use the Amanero USB board?
Yes, Lampi has used the Amanero board for some years now and the clock is upgraded with the 'Superclock' option
Is actually +6db of gain from the 242 valve, which is already a rather significant increase
OK, it seems more reasonable and similar to what happened when we just swapped an ECC82 for an ECC83 in a simple circuit. I remember some users did it in the VTL 7.5 preamplfier to tune its sound, although VTL did not endorse it.
Hi all lampi dacs roll, even the lower levels have some ECC8x variants, and the PX25 also has higher gain than the others though lower than 242. However, that itself is not what causes the difference.
Just to confirm some of the points Ked has made.
Ked and Greg(Gpoint) had brought up the Px25s and special 45s to compare with my PX4s. The 25s produced an improvement over the PX4s but it was not night and day. The 45s did not really sing in my GG.
I sent my Lampi back for the new clocks, R2R, linux firmware and power supply rebuild to take 242s.
It sounded better on its return with my existing PX4s, clearer more precise somehow eg previously some vocals in particular had a slight haze, that was now gone.
I ran the updated GG with PX4s for a few weeks until the new 242s arrived.
That was when we compared the PX4s with the brand new 242s and we experienced the striking improvements mentioned earlier.
Ked and Greg(Gpoint) had brought up the Px25s and special 45s to compare with my PX4s. The 25s produced an improvement over the PX4s but it was not night and day. The 45s did not really sing in my GG.
I sent my Lampi back for the new clocks, R2R, linux firmware and power supply rebuild to take 242s.
It sounded better on its return with my existing PX4s, clearer more precise somehow eg previously some vocals in particular had a slight haze, that was now gone.
I ran the updated GG with PX4s for a few weeks until the new 242s arrived.
That was when we compared the PX4s with the brand new 242s and we experienced the striking improvements mentioned earlier.
Once while chatting to Lukasz, off the top of his head he said the amplification factor for PX25 is similar to 101D around 5, and 242 is almost 20.
Another guy said
"EML45 and FM 300B/n have gain of 3.5
PX4 has 5.0
101D has 6.2
PX25 seem to have 9.5
242 was difficult to find, just found 242A having 12. "
Now, the 101d replicas definitely do not sound better than the special 45s, PX4, and the special 45s in some systems sound better than PX25 (much high gain), so it is not purely the numbers
Another guy said
"EML45 and FM 300B/n have gain of 3.5
PX4 has 5.0
101D has 6.2
PX25 seem to have 9.5
242 was difficult to find, just found 242A having 12. "
Now, the 101d replicas definitely do not sound better than the special 45s, PX4, and the special 45s in some systems sound better than PX25 (much high gain), so it is not purely the numbers
I've been out of the GG game for 6 months now. however; I did go through the change with the new clocks and 512 dsd + RTR engine, and the change in gain to accommodate the KR242 on my 101d/45 position on the toggle.
no doubt all was better everywhere with all the updates (it was actually a new chassis with my old top plate). but; some things did change with the lower gain, and one of them was that my Elrog 300b's, which I had been using on the 101d/45 setting, now were not as good....a bit anemic sounding. and my other NOS 45's, it seemed, were not as good. the net performance with the KR242 took things further, but some of the other tubes seem to have been affected. the other 300b tubes I had which were used on the 300b setting were apparently not affected.
this was 6 months ago, I don't have it anymore to go back and check, but the change to be able to use the KR242 did have consequences.
in my system, the KR242 was easily the best I heard the GG. maybe it might not have been that way in every system.
if I still had the GG I would want a 3 position toggle and retain the ideal 101d/45 gain setting and have the KR242 have it's own setting (to the degree I understand what the gain change affected, it may have been a 'global' gain change and changed gain for all settings....I don't know for sure)....I can only say what I recall hearing.
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I have been through all the known valves we are talking about here and settled on 242 - it really isn't any contest at all. In particular the noise floor is extremely low with 242, the speed and dynamics are big leap ahead of all other valves, the resolution is substantially improved. In fact I was so convinced I got rid of all my other valves - see absolutely no point in them. The only thing I would consider would be another 242 either nos or a new one made by eml (not that this is on their agenda) - I would like an EML 242 mesh if it existed or a Kr anni 242.
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