Golden Gate DAC arrives.

[bonzo75]

have been running in the 242s and they are improving all the time, big soundstage, powerful dynamic swings. Piano sounds terrific, fantastic bass.

They were unbeatable. I keep trying to tell this to others, that in some PX25 sounds good, in some the special 45, but these are good. When the gain matches the 242 it take it multiple times over so is worth configuring your system to it.

 

[dctom]

yeah straight out of the box there was more drama, greater sustain on vocals, more real, compared to my PX4s.

 

[bonzo75]

yeah straight out of the box there was more drama, greater sustain on vocals, more real, compared to my PX4s.

Don't forget previous trip we compared the PX25 and the special 45

 

[dctom]

yes we did!

 

[Audiocrack]

They were unbeatable. I keep trying to tell this to others, that in some PX25 sounds good, in some the special 45, but these are good. When the gain matches the 242 it take it multiple times over so is worth configuring your system to it.

Are you actually saying, Kedar, that in a-b comparisons under controlled circumstances you and your audio buddies prefer the 242 valves to the mesh anniversary 45 tubes that Lukasz ordered from Emission Labs? Not sure what you mean with special 45.

 

[bonzo75]

Hi AC, special 45 is the shorter name for EML mesh globe anniversary 45s made specially for Lampi – so yes.

Always, the special 45 and the PX25 have been a toss up – with some the 45 doing better and with some the PX25. At Christoph’s and dctom’s and a couple of others for example, the PX25 has been much better. The special 45 is noisier, though when it sounds right it has nice tone and musicality.

The 242 do not work in some systems due to some sort of gain mismatch – but when you adjust the gain the system will sound way superior to what special 45 or PX25 can sound in any system. So if it did not sound good in yours, I won’t say that’s your preference – I would say that your gain is not tuned to get the best out of it.

 

[Audiocrack]

Hi AC, special 45 is the shorter name for EML mesh globe anniversary 45s made specially for Lampi – so yes.

Always, the special 45 and the PX25 have been a toss up – with some the 45 doing better and with some the PX25. At Christoph’s and dctom’s and a couple of others for example, the PX25 has been much better. The special 45 is noisier, though when it sounds right it has nice tone and musicality.

The 242 do not work in some systems due to some sort of gain mismatch – but when you adjust the gain the system will sound way superior to what special 45 or PX25 can sound in any system. So if it did not sound good in yours, I won’t say that’s your preference – I would say that your gain is not tuned to get the best out of it.

Your personal preference or (sort of) unanimous decision of your 'audio group'?

Hard for me to believe the GG can sound even (much) better with these 242 valves; my GG with the two mesh 45 anniversary, Takatsuki 274B, Shun Mook feet, Audio Refine fuse and Audio Refine unpowered silver usb-cable sounds already so impressive in the LA/Kondo set up. Maybe some (lucky) system synergy.

Anyway, I suppose the audio truth is always: you need to hear something better in your own system to actually (fully) understand that new 'audio highs' can be achieved.

 

[bonzo75]

AC – my personal preference in some systems is that 242 does not work. In some systems it sounds better than anything possible. Special 45s and PX25 have never reached those heights.

Audiophile Bill and dctom will validate, Christoph heard them sound right once when I posted them over to him he will say the same thing, he owns both special 45 and PX25.

There is another guy not on the forum who loves the 242 over the PX25 and 45s for the same reason. The Aries Cerat 40k did better than the special 45ed Lampi, not better than the 242ed Lampi, same system.

Again – what you are trying to classify as a system preference is a gain match.

Since you have 242 and special 45s, just get the PX25, but try in both your systems. As the gains are different, you might be surprised by the differences across systems

Shun mook, fuses, and cables are independent of all this and can continue to play their effects, as will external streamers. Your Lampi without being optimised for 242 will run at a lesser level. I said this regarding the Elrog 300 a year ago

Hearing it in “your own system” does not work in this case, because if you do not know the highs that can be achieved due to a gain mismatch in your system, you will not know what to tune your dac for. Dctom, when he sent his dac back, asked for it to be tuned to this gain, like Bill and I did. If I had not heard this in another system, I would not know what to ask Lukasz to set my dac for.

 

[Audiocrack]

AC – my personal preference in some systems is that 242 does not work. In some systems it sounds better than anything possible. Special 45s and PX25 have never reached those heights.

Audiophile Bill and dctom will validate, Christoph heard them sound right once when I posted them over to him he will say the same thing, he owns both special 45 and PX25.

There is another guy not on the forum who loves the 242 over the PX25 and 45s for the same reason. The Aries Cerat 40k did better than the special 45ed Lampi, not better than the 242ed Lampi, same system.

Again – what you are trying to classify as a system preference is a gain match.

Since you have 242 and special 45s, just get the PX25, but try in both your systems. As the gains are different, you might be surprised by the differences across systems

Shun mook, fuses, and cables are independent of all this and can continue to play their effects, as will external streamers. Your Lampi without being optimised for 242 will run at a lesser level. I said this regarding the Elrog 300 a year ago

Hearing it in “your own system” does not work in this case, because if you do not know the highs that can be achieved due to a gain mismatch in your system, you will not know what to tune your dac for. Dctom, when he sent his dac back, asked for it to be tuned to this gain, like Bill and I did. If I had not heard this in another system, I would not know what to ask Lukasz to set my dac for.

Will ask Lukasz about these 242 tubes. As mentioned before, he visited me recently, was very impressed and never mentioned to me that I should consider the '242 route' although my GG went back a few times to Poland for updates.

 

[bonzo75]

He was the one who first advised it for big 7. Then the GG gain was too high and it went out of favor for GG. Bill and I were the first to adjust our dacs to suit it. Bill even got rid of all his other valves. I at least keep PX25 and the special 45 as back up.

All I say is, carry it to the other room, just quickly try the different valves and see what happens

 

[microstrip]

(...) Again – what you are trying to classify as a system preference is a gain match.

Since you have 242 and special 45s, just get the PX25, but try in both your systems. As the gains are different, you might be surprised by the differences across systems (...)

Can you quantify these gain differences in dB?

 

[bonzo75]

Can you quantify these gain differences in dB?

Roughly 16db. But it is more than just turning down the volume. It sometimes also over drives the pre asp causing distortions or coarseness, or sometimes sounds just weird and not right. When it clicks it is the best sound from the first note and difficult to even hit the pause or stop button.

 

[Audiocrack]

He was the one who first advised it for big 7. Then the GG gain was too high and it went out of favor for GG. Bill and I were the first to adjust our dacs to suit it. Bill even got rid of all his other valves. I at least keep PX25 and the special 45 as back up.

All I say is, carry it to the other room, just quickly try the different valves and see what happens

As described earlier, I briefly listened to the 242 tubes in my LA set up. No over drive issues with my Kondo amplification. But I preferred in this set up (without special gain modification for my GG) the 45 mesh anniversary tubes. Now there have been quite some (small) changes in the LA system so mayby I should give it another try.

The Genesis/Kondo set up is currently not up and running.

 

[bonzo75]

AC – preferences aside:

Was it significantly lower noise?
Did it give a cleaner, transparent sound?
Did it have wider and deeper stage?
Was it more significantly more detailed, having more resolution?
Did it have more dynamics?

 

[Audiocrack]

AC – preferences aside:

Was it significantly lower noise?
Did it give a cleaner, transparent sound?
Did it have wider and deeper stage?
Was it more significantly more detailed, having more resolution?
Did it have more dynamics?

In one word: refinement. In contrast the 242 sounded (somewhat) crude to my ears in the LA set up.

I am still working on the LA system. Hopefully I will be able to more or less finish this work in the last part of this year. When everything is working fine (or as it should in my view), you are most welcome to come over and we will listen together how the mesh anniversary 45 (my favourite) compares to the 242 (your favourite). I want the LA system to really shine in all relevant musical aspects before drawing definitive conclusions. Although the LA system sounds really good at the moment, I know there is still considerable room for improvement (not loudspeaker related btw) that will demonstrate how extraordinary the LA's really are.

 

[microstrip]

Roughly 16db. But it is more than just turning down the volume. It sometimes also over drives the pre asp causing distortions or coarseness, or sometimes sounds just weird and not right. When it clicks it is the best sound from the first note and difficult to even hit the pause or stop button.

Are you sure? This is more than a factor of x6 in output voltage just for changing the tube. In such conditions we can really expect some differences in distortion spectra when the tube is changed - I would expect that a resistor should be changed when swapping them, assuming it is a non-feedback circuit.

What is the 0dB standard output voltage of the GG?

 

[bonzo75]

If you refer to one of my posts above, I used the word crude to define when they don't work. No idea why that happens. Of course I don't prefer them that way, so you and I are on the same page.

My point is... It is worth trying to get them to sound like they are supposed to.

Yes will come over but would like to listen to the TTs too

 

[Audiocrack]

If you refer to one of my posts above, I used the word crude to define when they don't work. No idea why that happens. Of course I don't prefer them that way, so you and I are on the same page.

My point is... It is worth trying to get them to sound like they are supposed to.

Yes will come over but would like to listen to the TTs too

No, they do work in my set up as mentioned earlier. But the LA's - the most transparent loudspeaker I have come across in my life - showed that the 242 were less lineair and less refined sounding when I compared them with the 45. But maybe the 242 will work better when my GG would be adjusted in the way you did.

I value a refined, subtle, organic/unmechanical sound to an ultimate powerful and dynamic presentation that sacrifices in the departments that I value the most.

 

[bonzo75]

242s are way more linear…we will find out when we listen to it together, but right now I consider this a system mismatch and not a preference mismatch, based on description

 

[Audiocrack]

242s are way more linear…we will find out when we listen to it together, but right now I consider this a system mismatch and not a preference mismatch, based on description

I learned a few important lessons in my long audio journey, Kedar, and one of them is: be careful with stating that your view is 'the right one' and should also apply to others.