Final Amplifier for Martin Logan CLX

[awsmone]

Hi all

I am new to this forum

Looking for advice on amplifier to drive my CLX

My main focus is classical

Timbral correctness and soundstageing are primary to me

Having difficulty finding a reliable amp that will run the CLX

I run a iDescent with the special crossover for CLX

Works well in my room 20ft by 12 ft by 60 ft

The problems I am having

Thinness with SS( violin especilly) and reliability from probably back EMF upsetting amplifiers

All tubes seem to run well with good timbral accuracy, resolution suffers, and clipping issues

The only one I was very happy with was VAC 200phi monos

All advice gratefully accepted

Warm regards

Andrew

 

[MylesBAstor]

Hi all

I am new to this forum

Looking for advice on amplifier to drive my CLX

My main focus is classical

Timbral correctness and soundstageing are primary to me

Having difficulty finding a reliable amp that will run the CLX

I run a iDescent with the special crossover for CLX

Works well in my room 20ft by 12 ft by 60 ft

The problems I am having

Thinness with SS( violin especilly) and reliability from probably back EMF upsetting amplifiers

All tubes seem to run well with good timbral accuracy, resolution suffers, and clipping issues

The only one I was very happy with was VAC 200phi monos

All advice gratefully accepted

Warm regards

Andrew

Welcome what are you using for sources (s)? What ss amplifiers have you tried on your estats?

 

[GaryProtein]

Why not use the Accuphase A200 monoblocks since the rest of your system is Accuphase's top of the line?

Your room is 20W x 60L x 12H? I'm jealous! 14,400 cubic feet? Is one pair of CLX's enough to drive the room?

 

[awsmone]

Yes my room is that big dedicated room
Why I bought the house lol

CLX drive it easily
Bass phenomenal

As to answer about SS
Have blue circle BC 208 s
Bakoon 100 watt mono blocks
A lot of accuphase ref front end 900 901 DG 48 3800 atomic clock Mac mini server

Tried krell 600 electrocompaniet nemos
Mark lenvinson
Goldmund telos
Belcanto 1000 ref 2

No Accuphase 200 to try in 0z
Have to order one to try

Myles I known you have lots of experience
You mentioned Encore as an alternative to CJ

In the end can I get there with SS
Or should I consider tubes ?

Thx

 

[awsmone]

 

[puroagave]

View attachment 15101

congrats, the CLX is a great a speaker. unless the photo distorted the perspective somewhat, id say you're sitting too far back and not getting more direct sound that will fill out the stage better. you tried a krell 600 among others and experienced clipping? that amp will destroy a pair CLXes before you'd hear it distort, me thinks you're probably over-driving the speaker b/c you're listening position is so far back. if VAC gave you the sound you like, maybe you should explore other tube amps.

 

[awsmone]

Thx Rob

Good point

I actually moved a little forward since that photo
Sorry with the Krell was in different room
And it didnt clip
Sorry if I implied that ( think i said was with tubes under 100 watts)
It's some tube amps I have had clipping problems with

I generally listen under 90db at listening position when I check with apple iphone db app

Thx

Andrew

 

[awsmone]

 

[GaryProtein]

First, I'm totally discounting any sound measurements done with an iPhone. It's a telephone, not an audio measuring tool. You need a REAL SPL meter.

Second, judging by the dimensions of the CLX in the background and refrigerator half-way back in the photo, your room isn't as large as you described earlier and what you need is better room treatment, not going crazy with various higher power amplifiers. You have poor sonic definition because your room is so hard and polished it has to echo and the thinness you describe on violins will only be improved by room treatment, not more powerful amplifiers, either solid state or tubes. As Puroagave said, and based on a comparison of your photos, the perspective of your wide shot photo down the length of the room is distorted, and I don't think you are sitting so far from your speakers. I also can't believe the Krell 600 was anywhere near its clipping point.

You may be playing very loud in an attempt to hear better and get better definition to what you are listening to, but in reality, with the high volume, you are compounding the echo and ringing problem which makes it sound worse.

As always YMMV, but I think I'm pretty close here.

 

[awsmone]

Thanks

Thats good feedback

Once again I DIDNT SAY the krell clipped lol

I have not said anything negative about Krell other than I didnt prefer the sound

As to the room having an effect on perception thats a Valid point

However my expereince predates the move to the current house and room

I used to listen about 8 to 10 feet away, last dedicated room was heavily damped

Similar experience with SS so although the current room may exacerbate, in general the sound in this room is pretty marvellous and a number of visitors have commented on the quality of the sound


I am not happy with the timbral qualities of the strings with SS

What the photo doesnt show is that I am well into the room and there is a lot of space behind me as well

I have just looked at the plans of the house and I correct myself ( used to working in metric) and the average room width ( as it changes) is closer to 16 ft apologies

 

[awsmone]

Old Room
Nearer listening position

 

[awsmone]

Room Measurements at listening position

 

[ddk]

View attachment 15101

Hi Andrew,

You probably won't be happy with I have to say but it will save you months, maybe years of pointless aggravation and thousands of wasted dollars. I have done a quite a number of installations in spaces similar to yours and its a very difficult job. What I see in this picture is a poor choice of speaker in a near impossible space, setup by someone with very limited experience or knowledge armed with bad advice read in your typical audio rag for acoustic treatment. There's no amplifier on earth that will fix your setup. You need to find someone who knows what they're doing and be ready to make changes to almost everything, including your space.

david

 

[Gregadd]

Moscode402AU
Spectral 400 .mono blocks

 

[mep]

Hi Andrew,

You probably won't be happy with I have to say but it will save you months, maybe years of pointless aggravation and thousands of wasted dollars. I have done a quite a number of installations in spaces similar to yours and its a very difficult job. What I see in this picture is a poor choice of speaker in a near impossible space, setup by someone with very limited experience or knowledge armed with bad advice read in your typical audio rag for acoustic treatment. There's no amplifier on earth that will fix your setup. You need to find someone who knows what they're doing and be ready to make changes to almost everything, including your space.

david

I think you are being far too gentle. Give it to him straight.

 

[ddk]

I think you are being far too gentle. Give it to him straight.

How would you put it Mark? I don't know any other way besides straight up, probably why I'd never be a good diplomat.

david

 

[repman]

Perhaps a Sanders ESL or Magtech amp will give you the power you desire. Not sure of the sonic signature on the CLX that would be a matter of personal taste .

 

[mep]

How would you put it Mark? I don't know any other way besides straight up, probably why I'd never be a good diplomat.

david

I'm just teasing you David. You would make a great doctor with superb bedside manners. David the doctor to sick patient: "Don't buy any green bananas because you won't be around long enough to see them ripen."

Honestly, when I look at that blurry picture, I'm not even sure of what I'm seeing. What are those glass doors behind the ML speakers? Are those super tweeters mounted on stands between the ML speakers? Is that a turntable on the floor?

 

[awsmone]

Thank u for your comments

However if you followed the thread this is my old room
the point of showing it was i was forced due to its smaller size to listen much closer 8.5 feet with same effect

The things place everywhere don't represent the set up as I was dismantling the system to move to photo shown earlier, the chair you see is not a listening chair
The frequency plot though shows very good through the midrange and treble, showing that the sounds I heard with SS weren't due to frequency aberrations, bass effects were smaller room effects

I am happy to get feedback however painful
But I would ask you follow the thread in its entirety

The point of the photo was to show a picture of the much smaller room I had before my current

Thx for your input

Andrew

 

[ddk]

Thank u for your comments

However if you followed the thread this is my old room
the point of showing it was i was forced due to its smaller size to listen much closer 8.5 feet with same effect

The things place everywhere don't represent the set up as I was dismantling the system to move to photo shown earlier, the chair you see is not a listening chair
The frequency plot though shows very good through the midrange and treble, showing that the sounds I heard with SS weren't due to frequency aberrations, bass effects were smaller room effects

I am happy to get feedback however painful
But I would ask you follow the thread in its entirety

The point of the photo was to show a picture of the much smaller room I had before my current

Thx for your input

Andrew

You're showing two different setups in your pictures, I thought the first photo is of your new space, isn't it?

david