Entreq Tellus grounding

If the 24 ground rods are correctly installed, that is only one connection to the building AC power system and that connection being at the service entrance, then no ground lops are even possible.

If we have 24 ground rods we can guess they will cover a significant area, creating loops between the earth and the single connection. We should remember that the earth behaves as low resistance wire.

I am just quoting Middle Atlantic Products, but I have read similar recommendations elsewhere.

Auxiliary Ground Rods

Supplemental (auxiliary) grounding electrodes (building steel, ground rods, etc.) are not required or recommended because they may cause severe ground loops and may also be a safety hazard if not bonded properly. Do not install multiple ground rods or additional ground rods, except as required per code.
 
Maybe I'm missing something, but doesn't the positive impressions of the guy w/24 ground rods still getting an upgrade in SQ using Entreq mean something significant? At the v.least Entreq is obv doing something different, since if it was the same, there is no way a small wooden box packed w/wiring/minerals could outperform a frankly OTT SOTA ground rod solution.

Why should we consider his ground rod solution as SOTA? Does he use platinum rods and arose them weekly with Moet & Chandon Dom Perignon Charles & Diana 1961? ;)
 
Hey Microstrip, you know you've gone SOTA in your system when you: risk kids and pets being electrocuted/burnt by tubes, spend more time cleaning and damagnetizing lps/cds than listening to music, can physically fit inside your 7' tower spkrs at your funeral etc etc…and make your garden fence out of 24 ground rods! :eek::p:eek:...:cool:
 
Maybe I'm missing something, but doesn't the positive impressions of the guy w/24 ground rods still getting an upgrade in SQ using Entreq mean something significant? At the v.least Entreq is obv doing something different, since if it was the same, there is no way a small wooden box packed w/wiring/minerals could outperform a frankly OTT SOTA ground rod solution.

yes it does. Makes you wonder about the value of tripoint earth grounding when someone already has this real ground rod setup.
 
Another data point...a friend of mine has had a silver Tellus and 2 atlantis cables plugged into in Lamm ref (4 chassis) preamp for 3 days. He has ML3's powering his Verity Longrens. He also has a custom sub panel with a moat of custom ground rods surrounding his home. He was pleasantly surprised at the improvement in line with what myself and others are experiencing. This data point can put to rest that earth grounding does not accomplish what signal grounding does via Entreq.

Domenico... I'm sure you know who I am talking about.

Calling Dr. Brown...... Dr. Brown please call the operator for an important message;)
 
No permanent ground connection will ever be approved in either of the cities I have lived in the last 30 plus years. Both require a connection that the fire department can quickly disconnect. If they have any problem doing so they merely use a big wire cutter and sever it.

When I was considering ground solutions, I visited a local tv station and found a multiple rod grounding system with all connected to a center point which was where they grounded. I think it would be better to drill down to the water table and rod down that far or to use diatomaceous earth and keep it wet.
 
yes it does. Makes you wonder about the value of tripoint earth grounding when someone already has this real ground rod setup.

I think it's a mistake to assume that an earth ground done right somehow solves all power grid/ chassis grounding issues of a system in and of itself. and i'm not even saying that 24 ground rods, or 2 ground rods, or 1 only is correct. only that how the ground rod is done is simply a separate, if related issue, to optimizing the power grid or chassis ground optimization for each piece of gear.

all that said; I would expand my thought to say that my opinion is that electronics are designed balancing many issues and in the design and integration of pieces I think the issue of optimizing the ground may allow for further performance potential.

so you simply have to go down the road and try things with open ears.

my hunch is that both Entreq and Tripoint will find ways in any system to move the needle somewhat. regardless of one ground rod, or 100 ground rods.

there is so much we don't know.
 
I think it's a mistake to assume that an earth ground done right somehow solves all power grid/ chassis grounding issues of a system in and of itself. and i'm not even saying that 24 ground rods, or 2 ground rods, or 1 only is correct. only that how the ground rod is done is simply a separate, if related issue, to optimizing the power grid or chassis ground optimization for each piece of gear.

all that said; I would expand my thought to say that my opinion is that electronics are designed balancing many issues and in the design and integration of pieces I think the issue of optimizing the ground may allow for further performance potential.

so you simply have to go down the road and try things with open ears.

my hunch is that both Entreq and Tripoint will find ways in any system to move the needle somewhat. regardless of one ground rod, or 100 ground rods.

there is so much we don't know.
The Troy Signature with the Thor SE ground wires definitely does, but I imagine that investing in a better ground would definitely improve even what I presently have.
 
No permanent ground connection will ever be approved in either of the cities I have lived in the last 30 plus years. Both require a connection that the fire department can quickly disconnect. If they have any problem doing so they merely use a big wire cutter and sever it. (...)

Do you know why the fire department can need disconnecting the ground connection?
 
back to the thread object,
I have just received and installed an Atlantis Box to be added to the Silver Minimus.

IMG_6524.jpg

I have connected through 2 Eartha Silver ground cables the combo to both Totaldac Reclocker and D1 Dual DAC, as here shown:

IMG_6526.jpg

IMG_6527.jpg

It seems which for Entreq Grounding box is not featured only by the size, but by the density of special material mixed into the boxes. For sure, with same mixture but different size, the difference is more than subtle.
As PO told me, the position of the boxes could affect the results, side by side or stocked. I will test it.
Sense of warm and calm have been increased.
the contribution of Atlantis is truly remarkable!!!
I tried to plug both cables to the same item (D1 Dual DAC for instance), but I prefer the configuration on which Eltreq combo grounds both Reclocker and D1.
 
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I do not know what's inside, it's just my deduction. I do not care, but I know which is truly effective.
my family's components are my "worst case test".
I use them to test, trying to remove the doubt on some autosuggestion.:)
All of them found not subtle differences (in positive connecting Eltreq gears).
I believe you, I believe that the items you mention are good gears, especially if you've tried them in your system.

If the Entreq has only "special material mixed" inside, the Tripoint is clearly different technology. The Pranawire Linebacker is the analogous alternative product.
 
TBG, I'm a little perplexed by your assertion that the Troy is CLEARLY different from the Entreq. In reality we don't know for sure what's inside either, neither manufacturer is going to open their boxes up, for the main reason that performance is likely to collapse w/the casewk disrupted, and to protect commercial confidentiality. I saw a little comment a while back re discussion on Emperor that Miguel deals w/toxic chemicals, and from the little I can glean, Entreq's innards aren't exactly healthy to the human body.
So exactly why are you so adamant they are totally different? I don't believe you have too much more info tbh. We're all arguing in the relative dark.
I contend from a common sense point of view that this impedance sump effect is likely common to both designs to varying degrees, much about them is likely to be more similar than more different. But I do bow to the possibility that the materials inside Troy are more potent/pure/expensive etc and hence may be more effective.
If you don't mind me saying, you seem to be artificially creating a divide to enhance Troy as the superior by nature/the market leader. My opinion is that they co exist v.well, and potential customers won't be looking for different tech, looking more at different performance, whether signal- or chassis-borne grounding is more effective in one's system, whether upgrading or all-in-one purchase is desired, and whether one can handle the cost of the more expensive option.
 
If we have 24 ground rods we can guess they will cover a significant area, creating loops between the earth and the single connection.
Absolutely true if the rods are installed incorrectly. That's why the Middle Atlantic paper is against Auxiliary or Supplemental Ground Rods. Note that 'Auxiliary or Supplemental Ground Rods' are not part of the main grounding system, they are connected somewhere other than at the building's service entrance. They are sometimes seen in factories when electronics are added to a machine and they drive a rod through the floor next to the machine. Now if all 24 rods are connected at one point (at the service entrance) then there are no ground loops, because it's a single point connection.

We should remember that the earth behaves as low resistance wire.
This is true, Mother Earth's impedance is very close to zero Ohms. The big challenge is making a low impedance connect to Mother Earth. Even AM broadcast transmitting antenna system find this to be a problem. They have to use thousands of feet of buried copper radial wires to make a good connection.
 
I am just quoting Middle Atlantic Products, but I have read similar recommendations elsewhere.
Auxiliary Ground Rods
Supplemental (auxiliary) grounding electrodes (building steel, ground rods, etc.) are not required or recommended because they may cause severe ground loops and may also be a safety hazard if not bonded properly. Do not install multiple ground rods or additional ground rods, except as required per code.
That same Middle Atlantic has impotent information presented as Myth Busting:

Myth #2)
A supplemental (auxiliary) ground rod is a place where “noise” wants to go.
MYTH BUSTED!
Noise will always flow back to the source; noise does not want to flow to earth. In addition, the NEC mandates that any supplemental (auxiliary) ground rod be bonded to the neutral-ground bond of a separately derived system, the main service neutral-ground bond or the grounding electrode system. Improper bonding of a supplemental (auxiliary) ground rod is dangerous! Any attempt to use a supplemental (auxiliary) ground rod as a magical sink for “noise” will most likely fail, and result in circulating currents flowing in the ground wires, most likely adding to noise problems. There is no wire from an airplane to earth, yet it has an effective grounding system.

Myth #3)
The earth’s soil is an effective safety grounding point.
MYTH BUSTED!
Earth ground is not a substitute for safety ground. Driving independent, un-bonded ground rods into the earth does not provide a low enough impedance to trip circuit breakers, is a violation of the National Electrical Code, and can be life threatening when used as a safety ground.

Myth #4)
More grounds = quieter systems.
MYTH BUSTED!
Ground only where required for safety. Any additional grounds may provide or create additional paths for ground loops and increase system noise.

http://www.middleatlantic.com/resources/white-papers.aspx
 
TBG, I'm a little perplexed by your assertion that the Troy is CLEARLY different from the Entreq. In reality we don't know for sure what's inside either, neither manufacturer is going to open their boxes up, for the main reason that performance is likely to collapse w/the casewk disrupted, and to protect commercial confidentiality. I saw a little comment a while back re discussion on Emperor that Miguel deals w/toxic chemicals, and from the little I can glean, Entreq's innards aren't exactly healthy to the human body.
So exactly why are you so adamant they are totally different? I don't believe you have too much more info tbh. We're all arguing in the relative dark.
I contend from a common sense point of view that this impedance sump effect is likely common to both designs to varying degrees, much about them is likely to be more similar than more different. But I do bow to the possibility that the materials inside Troy are more potent/pure/expensive etc and hence may be more effective.
If you don't mind me saying, you seem to be artificially creating a divide to enhance Troy as the superior by nature/the market leader. My opinion is that they co exist v.well, and potential customers won't be looking for different tech, looking more at different performance, whether signal- or chassis-borne grounding is more effective in one's system, whether upgrading or all-in-one purchase is desired, and whether one can handle the cost of the more expensive option.

Believe me that I know what was in the old Pranawire and have a very good inching of what is in the Tripoint units. I also know that crystals in a box don't have to cost much. At some point I will probably try the Entreq.
 

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