DS Audio Ionizer

[Zeotrope]

I’m good, but thanks for your concern.
Never said I heard “distortion” with the ION on. The highs are rolled off and the overall sound is a bit “muddy” with it on. Again, you may not have a system that reveals the difference.

 

[Zeotrope]

Scientific background to what some of us are hearing:

How do ions act in a magnetic field? Do they essentially follow the magnetic field lines like a roller coaster on a track?

Answer (1 of 5): How do ions act in a magnetic field? Do they essentially follow the magnetic field lines like a roller coaster on a track? In a uniform B field they go around the field lines in a helical manner. In a non-uniform B field they are repelled by increasing strength of the B field. A...

www.quora.com

Bombarding a magnetic field with ions definitely changes the current produced by the cartridge. This is not in dispute. Whether you can hear it or not is another matter, but I suspect many people haven’t actually bothered to try it with the ION on and off, and are just going my blind faith. Doesn’t matter to me, I’m just pointing out that there is a scientific explanation for the change in sound.

Throwing ions into a very sensitive magnetic field changes the current produced.

 

[Vinylfan]

Scientific background to what some of us are hearing:

How do ions act in a magnetic field? Do they essentially follow the magnetic field lines like a roller coaster on a track?

Answer (1 of 5): How do ions act in a magnetic field? Do they essentially follow the magnetic field lines like a roller coaster on a track? In a uniform B field they go around the field lines in a helical manner. In a non-uniform B field they are repelled by increasing strength of the B field. A...

www.quora.com

Bombarding a magnetic field with ions definitely changes the current produced by the cartridge. This is not in dispute. Whether you can hear it or not is another matter, but I suspect many people haven’t actually bothered to try it with the ION on and off, and are just going my blind faith. Doesn’t matter to me, I’m just pointing out that there is a scientific explanation for the change in sound.

Throwing ions into a very sensitive magnetic field changes the current produced.

AI (Chat GPT). seems to agree.

Introducing ions into the air using an ionizer to reduce static can have potential implications for the playback of a vinyl record, and therefore, the sound produced by the cartridge. However, the effects may not be straightforward and can depend on various factors.

Static electricity can be a concern in vinyl playback as it can attract dust and interfere with the stylus tracking the grooves properly. Introducing ions with an ionizer is done to neutralize static charges and reduce the attraction of airborne particles.

Here are some considerations:

1. Reduced Static: Introducing negative ions can neutralize positive static charges in the air and on the record surface, potentially reducing the accumulation of dust on the record. This, in turn, may have a positive impact on sound quality by minimizing interference with the stylus.
2. Potential Interference: While reducing static is generally beneficial, introducing ions could, in theory, have other effects. For example, the ionized air might affect the electrical charge distribution on the surface of the record or the cartridge components. These subtle changes could, theoretically, influence the electrical signal generated by the cartridge.
3. Audible Impact: Whether these effects are audible or significant depends on various factors such as the sensitivity of the cartridge, the quality of the ionizer, and the overall setup of the audio system. It's possible that any impact on sound quality might be subtle and not easily perceptible.
4. Testing and Evaluation: If you're considering using an ionizer, it's advisable to conduct controlled tests and evaluations to determine any noticeable changes in sound quality. The impact might vary between different audio setups and personal preferences.

 

[Zeotrope]

Wow, this is an incredible response! AI will rule over us all in the not too distant future…

 

[Vinylfan]

Wow, this is an incredible response! AI will rule over us all in the not too distant future…

I don’t dare ask it about cables.

 

[sbo6]

Scientific background to what some of us are hearing:

How do ions act in a magnetic field? Do they essentially follow the magnetic field lines like a roller coaster on a track?

Answer (1 of 5): How do ions act in a magnetic field? Do they essentially follow the magnetic field lines like a roller coaster on a track? In a uniform B field they go around the field lines in a helical manner. In a non-uniform B field they are repelled by increasing strength of the B field. A...

www.quora.com

Bombarding a magnetic field with ions definitely changes the current produced by the cartridge. This is not in dispute. Whether you can hear it or not is another matter, but I suspect many people haven’t actually bothered to try it with the ION on and off, and are just going my blind faith. Doesn’t matter to me, I’m just pointing out that there is a scientific explanation for the change in sound.

Throwing ions into a very sensitive magnetic field changes the current produced.

Cartridge magnets are encased in the cartridge body, so your general statement marginally / minimally applies. More specifically, what data exists that the magnetic field of a cartridge has been measured and shown to be A) affected by an ION generator and B) if affected to a degree that is measurable, let alone audible.

Without such evidence, your information is your opinion not fact. If you have actual data, we'd all love to see it.

 

[djsina2]

Cartridge magnets are encased in the cartridge body, so your general statement marginally / minimally applies. More specifically, what data exists that the magnetic field of a cartridge has been measured and shown to be A) affected by an ION generator and B) if affected to a degree that is measurable, let alone audible.

Without such evidence, your information is your opinion not fact. If you have actual data, we'd all love to see it.

My Westek says…

Effective ionization range: 12"

With where I have it placed my cartridge is outside this range. Might also be why CSport says to place theirs in the upper left corner.

 

[Zeotrope]

Cartridge magnets are encased in the cartridge body, so your general statement marginally / minimally applies. More specifically, what data exists that the magnetic field of a cartridge has been measured and shown to be A) affected by an ION generator and B) if affected to a degree that is measurable, let alone audible.

Without such evidence, your information is your opinion not fact. If you have actual data, we'd all love to see it.

I have the fact of how it sounds, which is all I need. I realize not everyone has a highly revealing vinyl playback system, so the sound degradation will not be audible in all cases.
Rather than going back and forth and message about ‘how it’s not possible for the ION to degrade SQ’, just take the time to do repeated back and forth listening tests, as I have, as @JEB42 has (he IS a DS Audio dealer - a rare honest one!), and as @mtemur has.

 

[timztunz]

I have the fact of how it sounds, which is all I need. I realize not everyone has a highly revealing vinyl playback system, so the sound degradation will not be audible in all cases.
Rather than going back and forth and message about ‘how it’s not possible for the ION to degrade SQ’, just take the time to do repeated back and forth listening tests, as I have, as @JEB42 has (he IS a DS Audio dealer - a rare honest one!), and as @mtemur has.

What if one DOES have a highly revealing vinyl playback system and still hears no sound degradation?

 

[Zeotrope]

What if one DOES have a highly revealing vinyl playback system and still hears no sound degradation?

Great, well you shouldn’t need me to tell you “it’s OK to keep the ION on”

So far we know that the ION does degrade the sound with the SAT TT and Nagra TT (at least in our systems). What do you have, so others have a data point?

 

[sbo6]

What if one DOES have a highly revealing vinyl playback system and still hears no sound degradation?

I would argue this whole group have "highly revealing systems".

 

[sbo6]

I have the fact of how it sounds, which is all I need. I realize not everyone has a highly revealing vinyl playback system, so the sound degradation will not be audible in all cases.
Rather than going back and forth and message about ‘how it’s not possible for the ION to degrade SQ’, just take the time to do repeated back and forth listening tests, as I have, as @JEB42 has (he IS a DS Audio dealer - a rare honest one!), and as @mtemur has.

Underlining, bold and italics don't make it a fact. Either way, happy listening!

 

[timztunz]

Great, well you shouldn’t need me to tell you “it’s OK to keep the ION on”

So far we know that the ION does degrade the sound with the SAT TT and Nagra TT (at least in our systems). What do you have, so others have a data point?

It's all in my signature.

 

[djsina2]

If you had 40% relative humidity in winter, you’d have water dripping from your windows and causing mold. That’s probably not the case, so you didn’t maintain 40-45% humidity in winter
Look at the chart I posted above. Depending on outside temp, you’re at 20-30% humidity indoors.

-3F outside right now, humidity indoors at 39%. Listening to records now with the Westek on and noticing no static at all, sounding great. Also no water dripping on windows and no mold in sight.

 

[Kingrex]

I worked at a restaurant that had ionizers in the ceiling. It was fun to make the new guy wash the units with a wet rag. It would shock the crap out of them. Anyhow, part of the cleaning regiment was washing the tables below the ionizer. It seems the ionizer does not get rid of debris. It just deionizes it so the dirt falls from the sky and lands on whatever is below it. And that dirt stuck hard to what it landed on. There was generally a black tar over the tables. The same is true with air cleaners that use Ions. There is a black streak in front of them after prolonged use. It leaves a question, does and ionizer actually knock pollutants out of the air and let them fall and paste themselves onto your recored grooves. Are you trading one issue for another that may be worse.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

I worked at a restaurant that had ionizers in the ceiling. It was fun to make the new guy wash the units with a wet rag. It would shock the crap out of them. Anyhow, part of the cleaning regiment was washing the tables below the ionizer. It seems the ionizer does not get rid of debris. It just deionizes it so the dirt falls from the sky and lands on whatever is below it. And that dirt stuck hard to what it landed on. There was generally a black tar over the tables. The same is true with air cleaners that use Ions. There is a black streak in front of them after prolonged use. It leaves a question, does and ionizer actually knock pollutants out of the air and let them fall and paste themselves onto your recored grooves. Are you trading one issue for another that may be worse.

i think if you only have the ionizer on temporarily the amount of debris from neutralized micro-dust will be negligible. my DS Audio ION is used on my NVS which has a white platter surface. after 2 years now zero apparent accumulation. but it's only 'on' when a record is on the platter. and i do have an HVAC system with a fairly effective filter system. so the actual level of dust particulate in my air is likely relatively low.

not really a relevant concern when using for records.

for the record (pun intended), i do hear it when i forget to turn on either the CS Port IME1 or the DS Audio ION, and then appreciate what i hear when i do turn either on. YMMV.

 

[sbo6]

I worked at a restaurant that had ionizers in the ceiling. It was fun to make the new guy wash the units with a wet rag. It would shock the crap out of them. Anyhow, part of the cleaning regiment was washing the tables below the ionizer. It seems the ionizer does not get rid of debris. It just deionizes it so the dirt falls from the sky and lands on whatever is below it. And that dirt stuck hard to what it landed on. There was generally a black tar over the tables. The same is true with air cleaners that use Ions. There is a black streak in front of them after prolonged use. It leaves a question, does and ionizer actually knock pollutants out of the air and let them fall and paste themselves onto your recored grooves. Are you trading one issue for another that may be worse.

Dust will fall wherever the air flows from HVAC and other sources including hot / cold ambient air and will land on objects in its path. Also, any charged object may attract dust causing further accumulation, like your LP on the platter.

With an ionizer, the charge is neutralized which reduces the aforementioned condition. Plus, the amount of time the record is on the platter =~ 20 minutes so minimal amount of accumulation versus potential 24 x 7 for everything.

Net for me with my ionizer is - no static on the platter, no dust accumulation (or at least less than without), but I don't hear any difference with it on or off, which is fine with me, as I love the removal of static as it goes back into its clean dust - free sleeve.

 

[howiebrou]

I worked at a restaurant that had ionizers in the ceiling. It was fun to make the new guy wash the units with a wet rag. It would shock the crap out of them. Anyhow, part of the cleaning regiment was washing the tables below the ionizer. It seems the ionizer does not get rid of debris. It just deionizes it so the dirt falls from the sky and lands on whatever is below it. And that dirt stuck hard to what it landed on. There was generally a black tar over the tables. The same is true with air cleaners that use Ions. There is a black streak in front of them after prolonged use. It leaves a question, does and ionizer actually knock pollutants out of the air and let them fall and paste themselves onto your recored grooves. Are you trading one issue for another that may be worse.

Have you tried spinning your tables at 33 or 45rpm? May be the dirt won't stick as much then?

 

[Kingrex]

Have you tried spinning your tables at 33 or 45rpm? May be the dirt won't stick as much then?

Good one.

My point is an ionizer does not remove contaminants. It makes them fall out of suspension in the air onto anything below them. I assume no one has ever done a test of a record surface to know if more or less contaminants gets on a record with or without one.
A true listening room is probably pretty clean. My living room air is filthy. Cooking smells. Dog smell. Lots of dust from the hightway a couple blocks away. If I had an ionizer, I might inadvertently knock cooking grease out of the air and onto my records if I used it while making pork chops. Thats not something Mike thinks about.

I have heard a couple people I trust say they run their DS Audio ionizer while playing a record and its better. Enough so I looked to buy one myself. They are not cheap. I looked for a commercial one but those are not inexpensive either and bulky. Maybe some day.

 

[Zeotrope]

-3F outside right now, humidity indoors at 39%. Listening to records now with the Westek on and noticing no static at all, sounding great. Also no water dripping on windows and no mold in sight.

Great. It's "relative humidity" so depending on how cold it is outside, moisture will/will not form if the humidity is too high.
Another proof-point that there is actually no need for the ION-001 in a well humidified room.