Downsizing? Am I crazy??

[AMP]

I got started with my system downsizing and in the process of shipping out the first sold item (the VTL MB-450s) I had a bit of a meltdown. My goal was to move to a much simpler system and at the same time retrieve some of the cash that I have locked up in stereo gear. Now that the process has started I'm having some pretty significant second thoughts.

My plan was to re-create the Esoteric MG-10 / RZ-1 system that I reviewed here on WBF in the spring of 2011. This was a loaner system that I used for about 6 weeks while waiting for my Rockports to arrive. I recall that at the time I was blown away by the performance of this comparatively modest system and re-reading my posts on the Esoteric section of WBF affirms my recollection.

This all made perfect sense until it came time to actually box up and ship out a component.

Will I miss the low bass extension?

Will I miss the resolution?

I had never heard the Rockports in my room when I had the Esoteric components so maybe they won't be as good as I remember them!

... and on and on and on....

Who here has gone through a stereo downsizing from near SOTA to something much more modest? Do you ever find yourself longing for what you gave up or are you finding that simpler is much easier to live with?

Personally I'm at a crossroads. I've only sold the amplifiers and I'm willing to take the lumps of a lesson learned to buy another pair. My big fear is that I'll part with everything and then kick myself in the coming years.

 

[audioguy]

Who here has gone through a stereo downsizing from near SOTA to something much more modest? Do you ever find yourself longing for what you gave up or are you finding that simpler is much easier to live with?

Personally I'm at a crossroads. I've only sold the amplifiers and I'm willing to take the lumps of a lesson learned to buy another pair. My big fear is that I'll part with everything and then kick myself in the coming years.

I have done almost exactly what you are doing. OLD: large floor standing speakers (Wilson, Dunlavy); 4 piece dCS stack; VPI TNT turntable, et al; various high end pre-amps (Rowland, Audio Research, etc); mono block amps (Bryston; Mark Levinson); etc. NEW: No turntable; no dCS stack; new music server; Seaton powered speakers and subs; SSP acting as a preamp; no external amps; very basic cables ..........

Only on rare occasion do I question my decision. I get at least as much enjoyment from this system as I did previously. Not because it sounds as good (it doesn't but VERY close) but rather, I have gotten off the never-ending equipment merry-go-round and it really has become all about the music. I have totally been freed from the lusting for the next super shiny metal audio do-hickey. It had taken me over 40 years to accumulate the previous system so there was definitely some grieving to go through but I am very glad I did it.

I did upgrade one thing: THE ROOM !!!!!!!!!!!

 

[GaryProtein]

Unless you are moving to a place where you physically cannot fit your system, DON'T DO IT.

Retrieving money you invested is a very bad reason to sell your system. You won't get it all back anyway. That, plus your investment in a newer more modest system, depending on the new system, may be close to a wash, unless you are severely downsizing your system.

 

[audioguy]

Unless you are moving to a place where you physically cannot fit your system, DON'T DO IT.

Retrieving money you invested is a very bad reason to sell your system. You won't get it all back anyway. That, plus your investment in a newer more modest system, depending on the new system, may be close to a wash, unless you are severely downsizing your system.

I should add that I was forced to downsize for financial reasons. I would probably have not done so had it not been necessary. That said, I am now in a financial position to do some serious upgrades but will not.

As I noted above, the never ending, always expensive upgrade cycle (for me) really did remove some of the listening pleasure as I would spend time thinking about how I could make this or that better, instead of just enjoying the music. I did not realize I was doing that as much as I was until I made this change. I do not do so any longer. But that's just me.

 

[asiufy]

audioguy,

Here's just a situation that happened here: a friend had his stereo in the living room, with big Audio Research monos (the 210 I think), and Ref 5 preamp. It was a mess, cluttered his room, wife none too happy about it.
He sold the pre+power and got a darTZeel integrated amp. One piece, and small one too. The net result is that he got an upgrade (the darTZeel integrated is way better than the AR combo, in his words) and now his room is far less cluttered. He even freed up enough space to put a turntable in there, since the integrated already has a phono stage in it, so no need for a separate box too...
So, downsizing like this can work. Look into either the darTZeel integrated or the Devialet amp. Those are compact, not that expensive, and will provide you with a great system.


alexandre

 

[AMP]

I should add that I was forced to downsize for financial reasons. I would probably have not done so had it not been necessary. That said, I am now in a financial position to do some serious upgrades but will not.

For me it's not as much of a financial necessity as it is looking at what I have tied up in the system and the infrequency in which I actually use it.

Of course, that infrequency is all a matter of choices. I can make time to listen, but there always seems to be something else that I'm doing. I'll be the first to admit that the "something else" is by no means important, it's more of a free time inertia thing. When I do make the time I enjoy(ed) it very much.

As I noted above, the never ending, always expensive upgrade cycle (for me) really did remove some of the listening pleasure as I would spend time thinking about how I could make this or that better, instead of just enjoying the music. I did not realize I was doing that as much as I was until I made this change. I do not do so any longer. But that's just me.

I went through a lot of this as well, but once I got the system to its current state I lost all desire to do more upgrades and simply enjoyed what I had. In the past I was on the never-ending cycle, but I realized that I was changing things so quickly that I never had a chance to really sit back and enjoy what I had. More importantly, I wasn't enjoying the music as I was only listening to the stereo... and the same audiophile recordings over and over.

I could sit and listen to a digital source with no desire to do anything more than listen, but when I played an LP (especially one I hadn't listened to in a while) I started questioning the setup of the table. Maybe VTA needs to be tweaked a bit. Do I really have the azimuth set correctly? Is that noise in the pressing or is there something screwed up with the table? There was nothing wrong with the setup and in fact I had it dialed in quite well, but given an available adjustment I had to fight the urge to constantly tweak it. That's not fun.

My real concern with downsizing is that after the newness wears off (which can take months) I'll be left longing for what I've lost. Of course, based on the logic of downsizing due to lack of use this really isn't a big deal. As we all know, though, logic and audiophillia rarely intersect.

 

[Steve Williams]

I believe that Gary gave you the best advice inasmuch as downsizing will leave you with little ROI such that you'll be able to only buy something far less desirable

 

[FrantzM]

Hi

The execise can be fruitful as we, audiophiles invest a lot in things whose returns (sonics or financial) can only be deemed doubtful. I am in that situation too. I have really been forced to downsized. From three rooms (One HT and one 2-ch, one in an USA apartment) to the past two years headphones based system. I am close to a speaker-based much smaller and modest system but through what headphones listening, this forum and others as well as several auditions at friends and friendly dealers have taught me, I expect the coming system to rival the much larger and onerous system I had ...

It remains however that one should not sway too far. I believe very strongly in the notion of balance. I don't want to go from a full range wide scale system to a mini-monitor. One can always persuade oneself of almost anything but the truth tends to always reveal itself in its glaring and often painful glory and one may find oneself extremely dissatisfied to the point of not listening too much to the system. If your system was full range, try to have theat, it can be achieved these days with subwoofers and mains capable of scale. I believe your Rockport (Aviat?) to be capable of such scale. The Rockport I heard the Mira, Ankaa (?) and Aquila were capable of the real scale, if the music is big then big they sound although the Mira had limited bloom in the lower registers something that can these days be achieved with subwoofers, multiple subwoofers, and even there you do not have to go big and crazy as there exist several good and modestly (for audiophiles) priced and sized subwoofers out there( Paradigm, Seaton, Rythmik, JL Audio, SVS, etc).

It is an interesting exercise you have started and it can be extremely succesful. Please do document your journey it will be serve us. Also look into room acoustics... Results are in all cases real and substantial.

 

[Gregadd]

IF
Rudyard Kipling
IF you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you,
If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,
But make allowance for their doubting too;
If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,
Or being lied about, don't deal in lies,
Or being hated, don't give way to hating,
And yet don't look too good, nor talk too wise:

If you can dream - and not make dreams your master;
If you can think - and not make thoughts your aim;
If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
And treat those two impostors just the same;
If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken
Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,
Or watch the things you gave your life to, broken,
And stoop and build 'em up with worn-out tools:

If you can make one heap of all your winnings
And risk it on one turn of pitch-and-toss,
And lose, and start again at your beginnings
And never breathe a word about your loss;
If you can force your heart and nerve and sinew
To serve your turn long after they are gone,
And so hold on when there is nothing in you
Except the Will which says to them: 'Hold on!'

If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue,
' Or walk with Kings - nor lose the common touch,
if neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you,
If all men count with you, but none too much;
If you can fill the unforgiving minute
With sixty seconds' worth of distance run,
Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it,
And - which is more - you'll be a Man, my son!

Rudyard Kipling

 

[LL21]

I got started with my system downsizing and in the process of shipping out the first sold item (the VTL MB-450s) I had a bit of a meltdown. My goal was to move to a much simpler system and at the same time retrieve some of the cash that I have locked up in stereo gear. Now that the process has started I'm having some pretty significant second thoughts.

My plan was to re-create the Esoteric MG-10 / RZ-1 system that I reviewed here on WBF in the spring of 2011. This was a loaner system that I used for about 6 weeks while waiting for my Rockports to arrive. I recall that at the time I was blown away by the performance of this comparatively modest system and re-reading my posts on the Esoteric section of WBF affirms my recollection.

This all made perfect sense until it came time to actually box up and ship out a component.

Will I miss the low bass extension?

Will I miss the resolution?

I had never heard the Rockports in my room when I had the Esoteric components so maybe they won't be as good as I remember them!

... and on and on and on....

Who here has gone through a stereo downsizing from near SOTA to something much more modest? Do you ever find yourself longing for what you gave up or are you finding that simpler is much easier to live with?

Personally I'm at a crossroads. I've only sold the amplifiers and I'm willing to take the lumps of a lesson learned to buy another pair. My big fear is that I'll part with everything and then kick myself in the coming years.

First Advice: STOP any more selling until you are sure you know what you want. Assuming there is no emergency here, dont rush.

Second: Assuming you're not liquidating assets for emergency cash...then forget the money (for the moment). What do you want in your audio system? That's why you've been doing this for 40 years...you're an audiophile. So what do you want now as an audiophile?

Third: Put another way...why did you even begin breaking up a stunning system that took 40 years to build in the first place?

 

[GaryProtein]

IF
Rudyard Kipling
IF you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you,
If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,
But make allowance for their doubting too;
If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,
Or being lied about, don't deal in lies,
Or being hated, don't give way to hating,
And yet don't look too good, nor talk too wise:

If you can dream - and not make dreams your master;
If you can think - and not make thoughts your aim;
If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
And treat those two impostors just the same;
If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken
Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,
Or watch the things you gave your life to, broken,
And stoop and build 'em up with worn-out tools:

If you can make one heap of all your winnings
And risk it on one turn of pitch-and-toss,
And lose, and start again at your beginnings
And never breathe a word about your loss;
If you can force your heart and nerve and sinew
To serve your turn long after they are gone,
And so hold on when there is nothing in you
Except the Will which says to them: 'Hold on!'

If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue,
' Or walk with Kings - nor lose the common touch,
if neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you,
If all men count with you, but none too much;
If you can fill the unforgiving minute
With sixty seconds' worth of distance run,
Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it,
And - which is more - you'll be a Man, my son!

Rudyard Kipling

That's a great poem, Gregadd.

My father gave that to me in a birthday card when I turned thirteen.

They are truly words to live by.

 

[Bill Hart]

I think this is a personal decision, and obviously an emotional one. Just a few observations, since I went through I similar thinking process just a few months ago myself:
- these are just things and commodities at that; it's not like they can't be replaced, upgraded, switched out, sold, or changed at any point in time. They are not one of a kind pieces of artwork, one-off collector cars (good story about Bill Marriott here- he sold his 250 TdF at one point because he needed the money, but loved and missed the car so much that when he had the funds he bought it back). So, ultimately, if the money isn't driving this in the first place, it doesn't matter. It's about your emotional attachment and some fear that you will be selling something irreplaceable. Recognize it for what it is.
Others who have said you don't really get your money out of this stuff are right, and if you are just going to swap silver boxes for black boxes, that kind of pointless, isn't it? You can make a different kind of system, one that may have other attributes, but if you like your current system, keep it. If you want to try something else first before you decide, do it. The emotional attachment comes in part from an " I built this" -it isn't just going out shopping, but the hard lessons learned in selecting, matching, tweaking, and getting the system the way you want it. That's a reflection of you and your taste, sensibilities, and creative judgment. I think that's where alot of the 'what am I losing' here is about- but you could do it all again if you had to. I know some people who restore cars and sell them, only to start over again. It's not the end for them, it's as much about the process. That you have based on your brain, not the boxes on the shelves.
Life is ultimately too short to torture yourself over things. Not criticizing you- I've done it myself, I'm sure we all have. I can look back and say, damn, I wished I hadn't sold X car and bought Y. But, you know what? I can go back out and get an X anytime I want. Will it cost more in the long run? Yep. But, so what? If you need to rethink what you are doing, do it. If you make a mistake, it's correctable.
Not intending to sound harsh, just saying, keep your perspective. Only you know what you want.
I've done far crazier, and more stupid things. And I'm still here, in more or less one piece.

 

[RBFC]

I'd be inclined to make a commitment to sample many new artists and learn more about music to revive your enthusiasm. Once you've had a system of the caliber you currently enjoy, you will never be satisfied with less when you do want to listen seriously. Your time allotment priorities may change, leaving you more interested in listening. Grow into the art and let the "lens" remain for now. If you're having second thoughts already, it'll only get worse IMO.

Lee

 

[puroagave]

I think this is a personal decision, and obviously an emotional one. Just a few observations, since I went through I similar thinking process just a few months ago myself:
- these are just things and commodities at that; it's not like they can't be replaced, upgraded, switched out, sold, or changed at any point in time. They are not one of a kind pieces of artwork, one-off collector cars...

well put. i went through a purge over twenty yrs ago i had nearly six figures invested in audio gear/LPs while still in my mid twenties - i had better things to do with my money and life at the time so off it went. the only material 'things' i regret selling were the Lps and books/automobilia, both very hard to replace and prolly now worth quadruple what i sold it for. like my buddy Scott reminds me "everything is for sale" i have no emotional attachment to stuff anymore. family, health/well-being are all that counts. as for music, i can still enjoy it on a table top radio, well maybe not a cheap one but the new NAD visio 1 would suffice.

 

[Steve Williams]

I think this is a personal decision, and obviously an emotional one. Just a few observations, since I went through I similar thinking process just a few months ago myself:
- these are just things and commodities at that; it's not like they can't be replaced, upgraded, switched out, sold, or changed at any point in time. They are not one of a kind pieces of artwork, one-off collector cars (good story about Bill Marriott here- he sold his 250 TdF at one point because he needed the money, but loved and missed the car so much that when he had the funds he bought it back). So, ultimately, if the money isn't driving this in the first place, it doesn't matter. It's about your emotional attachment and some fear that you will be selling something irreplaceable. Recognize it for what it is.
Others who have said you don't really get your money out of this stuff are right, and if you are just going to swap silver boxes for black boxes, that kind of pointless, isn't it? You can make a different kind of system, one that may have other attributes, but if you like your current system, keep it. If you want to try something else first before you decide, do it. The emotional attachment comes in part from an " I built this" -it isn't just going out shopping, but the hard lessons learned in selecting, matching, tweaking, and getting the system the way you want it. That's a reflection of you and your taste, sensibilities, and creative judgment. I think that's where alot of the 'what am I losing' here is about- but you could do it all again if you had to. I know some people who restore cars and sell them, only to start over again. It's not the end for them, it's as much about the process. That you have based on your brain, not the boxes on the shelves.
Life is ultimately too short to torture yourself over things. Not criticizing you- I've done it myself, I'm sure we all have. I can look back and say, damn, I wished I hadn't sold X car and bought Y. But, you know what? I can go back out and get an X anytime I want. Will it cost more in the long run? Yep. But, so what? If you need to rethink what you are doing, do it. If you make a mistake, it's correctable.
Not intending to sound harsh, just saying, keep your perspective. Only you know what you want.
I've done far crazier, and more stupid things. And I'm still here, in more or less one piece.

well as the saying goes, "you don't see a U-Haul behind a hearse" in a funeral procession

 

[Johnny Vinyl]

Once you've had a system of the caliber you currently enjoy, you will never be satisfied with less when you do want to listen seriously.

If one is into music, then it shouldn't matter one iota. If one is into sound reproduction than perhaps you have a point. JMO...YMMV!

 

[AMP]

I'd be inclined to make a commitment to sample many new artists and learn more about music to revive your enthusiasm. Once you've had a system of the caliber you currently enjoy, you will never be satisfied with less when you do want to listen seriously. Your time allotment priorities may change, leaving you more interested in listening. Grow into the art and let the "lens" remain for now. If you're having second thoughts already, it'll only get worse IMO.

Lee

Thanks Lee. You make a very good point indeed. I think that all too often audiophiles get stuck in the evaluation mode and end up listening to the same subset of their music collection over and over.

The really sad thing about my lack of listening lately is that the volume of new music purchases hasn't really decreased. I have about 6 boxes here in my office from Acoustic Sounds and Music Matters with various LPs from their subscriptions. They're all still sealed. Over the last year I've picked up a number of the large classical boxes of CDs containing the Living Stereo and Living Presence reissues as well as the complete Horowitz and Heifetz collections. There are probably 100 LPs on my shelf which are still sealed in the wrappers. I love all of this music, but the task of preparing the LPs picking favorites out of the hundreds of CDs is truly daunting.

I should have just pulled items at random and given them a listen!

well put. i went through a purge over twenty yrs ago i had nearly six figures invested in audio gear/LPs while still in my mid twenties - i had better things to do with my money and life at the time so off it went. the only material 'things' i regret selling were the Lps and books/automobilia, both very hard to replace and prolly now worth quadruple what i sold it for. like my buddy Scott reminds me "everything is for sale" i have no emotional attachment to stuff anymore. family, health/well-being are all that counts. as for music, i can still enjoy it on a table top radio, well maybe not a cheap one but the new NAD visio 1 would suffice.

Part of my original thought process went along these lines. Here I had well over $100K sunk into a stereo which serves no purpose other than allowing me to listen to music. Sure, that in and of itself is important, but I can listen to and enjoy music on almost any source.

It wasn't until I started parting out the system that I felt real remorse.

First Advice: STOP any more selling until you are sure you know what you want. Assuming there is no emergency here, dont rush.

Done. Once I started questioning my decision I stopped the sale process.

Second: Assuming you're not liquidating assets for emergency cash...then forget the money (for the moment). What do you want in your audio system? That's why you've been doing this for 40 years...you're an audiophile. So what do you want now as an audiophile?

Third: Put another way...why did you even begin breaking up a stunning system that took 40 years to build in the first place?

I've had the bug for a long time (since my pre-teens), but that still doesn't amount to 40 years (getting closer, though). I've been building this system (in three rounds of upgrades) since 2005. There was a period of a couple of years prior to that when I didn't have a dedicated system due to space and money constraints (relied on a multi-room system for that period).

As an audiophile I'm looking for something to elevate my enjoyment of music. Something that can allow me to check out of reality for a moment and simply enjoy the music. My current system does that for me, but I also know that a more modest system could do the same.

If one is into music, then it shouldn't matter one iota. If one is into sound reproduction than perhaps you have a point. JMO...YMMV!

There are indeed two sides of this hobby and often it's way to easy to swing to one of the extremes. More often than not it's people forgetting about the music and just focusing on the stereo. Although I am a music lover first and foremost I do believe that the quality of the reproduction can dramatically impact the enjoyment of the listening session.

 

[flez007]

As some others have posted, I had also been in that situation more than one time, the roller-coaster of up/down sizing my rig... bottom line: I ended up spending more cash with no ROI

 

[FrantzM]

The notion of ROI has come often in this thread. How do you define ROI I suppose it is Return On Investment) in the context of music reproduction?

 

[Steve Williams]

AMP

always remember that the way to an addict's heart is through another addict. So if you count this hobby a form of audiophile addiction, well you get my drift.....