Does some gear "SUCK" because it is too revealing?

[treitz3]

So when this is the case, is the revealing system revealing distortion?

Hello, Tim. IME, it could be that or that it is creating distortion to achieve the desired effect some would consider detail.

 

[Imperial]

There is no such thing as too revealing.
There is however such a thing as going after Achilles without a bow and arrow handy, thinking one can survive on swagger alone.
The proof is in the synergy, I guess.

Some battles one cannot win, unless one actually be, Achilles.

I think that some speakers are so expensive, that the companies selling them know better than to insult a buyer.
So let me insult these buyers: At what price does any of these speakers come with a clear and powerfull "no, this speaker is not for your room, or you" ?
If this be the truth, should that not be part of the quality of the product? No?

That is the part that suck... in my book!

Imperial.

 

[JackD201]

The more precise the equipment, the more precise the user must be. If you are lazy, get something colored to your tastes and be done with it.

 

[audioarcher]

The more precise the equipment, the more precise the user must be. If you are lazy, get something colored to your tastes and be done with it.

Exactly Jack. The more resolving the equipment is the more resolved the problems will be. If you don't have the energy to fine tune the system to fix the problems then you may be better off with something less precise.

Sean

 

[Johnny Vinyl]

Almost sounds like the more expensive a system is the more problems you'll have, although that is likely not what you guys meant.

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

Hello, Tim. IME, it could be that or that it is creating distortion to achieve the desired effect some would consider detail.

I think your estimation is correct. I suspect what Jack and Audioarcher are referring to below has to do with laying bare flaws in the media. If the system is revealing, and you haven't made the foolish error of mating a particularly transparent amp with a flawed source or pre, there is only one thing for a system to reveal: The recording.

Tim

 

[rockitman]

. If the system is revealing, and you haven't made the foolish error of mating a particularly transparent amp with a flawed source or pre, there is only one thing for a system to reveal: The recording.

Tim

True dat !

By the way, I like your new "hydra" version of Tim avatar....

 

[audioarcher]

I think your estimation is correct. I suspect what Jack and Audioarcher are referring to below has to do with laying bare flaws in the media. If the system is revealing, and you haven't made the foolish error of mating a particularly transparent amp with a flawed source or pre, there is only one thing for a system to reveal: The recording.

Tim

The trick is knowing whether the recording is flawed or the playback system. The more experienced you are the easier it is to tell them apart.

 

[JackD201]

The trick is knowing whether the recording is flawed or the playback system. The more experienced you are the easier it is to tell them apart.

Yessir. It's not just the recording but every other variable upstream including environmental factors that introduce noise into the signal path. I always say that having a very quiet, well designed room is both a blessing and a curse because it allows you to hear so much more, good AND bad. Put revealing loudspeakers in it and what would have been masked (like low level 60Hz hum or RFI hash) suddenly becomes a source of distraction and maybe even irritation. This isn't the loudspeaker's fault and neither is it the room's.

Tim makes a good point about choosing speakers engineered to work well in a normal domestic environment. Many High-end speakers and all respectable professional speakers are typically designed with the assumption that the users will provide an environment that is studio grade or close to it. If a speaker gives flat response to below even just 70Hz or even 100Hz, you have to work your environment. Normal environments will have strong reflections in the 1k to 4k range and will also have suck outs. No surprise that we see speakers designed with specific directivity, Gundry dips and midbass humps that attempt to address the practically unforeseeable. Yet these speakers are looked down upon by many spec lovers, even those who have paid little attention to their rooms and might actually benefit from them!

This isn't an objectivist or subjectivist debate but rather one of perspective. Is the focus on the goings on in the chain or the final outcome at the listening/measurement position? My focus is on the latter. The former is what influences it and what can be addressed especially if the acoustic environment is, by circumstance (such as WAF, lease agreements or architectural constraints), a given. EQ, DRC, Movable treatments, cables changes, equipment changes, all other tweaks (that actually have an effect ) are all fair game to me for as long as they aid in reaching the target curve. Unfortunately this comes with a limit. If you like to play loud your environment will ring at some point. The harder your surfaces, the sooner it will happen.

None of this is the fault of the equipment. It falls squarely on the shoulders of the user for choosing the wrong horses for the wrong courses.

 

[Gregadd]

So when this is the case, is the revealing system revealing distortion?

Tim

Tim if your have one at home retrieive it and perform the following experiment. Are you famailar with the beautician mirror. It has two sides. One is the natural reflection, the other is magnifying. They can be purchased at your local beautician shop, if you don't have one. The normal side is transparent, the magnifying side is revelaaing. Look into the normal side. You see a perfect relection of your face. Now flip it over . You see a much closer reflection completet with blemishes.
Tha's the difference.
Greg.

 

[dallasjustice]

Tim if your have one at home retrieive it and perform the following experiment. Are you famailar with the beautician mirror. It has two sides. One is the natural reflection, the other is magnifying. They can be purchased at your local beautician shop, if you don't have one. The normal side is transparent, the magnifying side is revelaaing. Look into the normal side. You see a perfect relection of your face. Now flip it over . You see a much closer reflection completet with blemishes.
Tha's the difference.
Greg.

Since we are using analogies. I will take it a step further. A more revealing system may let you see the blemishes more clearly but will also let you experience the beauty of the music with greater intensity. It's like kissing a beautiful woman for the first time. When you go in for the kiss, you might be able to more easily see her imperfections. But who cares? You are about to kiss a beautiful woman!

 

[Gregadd]

Since we are using analogies. I will take it a step further. A more revealing system may let you see the blemishes more clearly but will also let you experience the beauty of the music with greater intensity. It's like kissing a beautiful woman for the first time. When you go in for the kiss, you might be able to more easily see her imperfections. But who cares? You are about to kiss a beautiful woman!

I close my eyes.:b

Greg

 

[GaryProtein]

Very fine, highly resolving systems come with a tremendous curse.

Many recordings you found thrilling and used to enjoy on your previous system become almost unlistenable on the new refined one.

 

[mep]

Very fine, highly resolving systems come with a tremendous curse.

Many recordings you found thrilling and used to enjoy on your previous system become almost unlistenable on the new refined one.

Please tell me one recording that used to sound thrilling to you that now is "almost unlistenable" on your more refined system.

 

[treitz3]

Hello, Mark. I can name many an album in my collection that now is "almost unlistenable" on a more refined system but since you asked for just one I'll offer one for you that I used to enjoy often. Not so much anymore. Big Head Todd and the Monsters, "Sister Sweetly". I'm actually building a second system that is less refined so that I can enjoy them more than now, just as I did in the past.

Tom