Do you use cables to 'tune' the sonics of your system?

[Cellcbern]

So that puts speaker wires in the middle?

Yes.

 

[ozzzy]

I think it depends on the equipment and the cables. All cables matter. Try the Infigo interconnects and be amazed how much your system sound will be transformed.

Although I also said this when I added AudioQuest Dragon power cords and Townshend F1 speaker cables.

ozzy

 

[Rekmeyata]

So that puts speaker wires in the middle?

No, that puts speaker cables into the realm of psychosomatic problems. People can only perceive in their imagination that a $1.45 a foot speaker cables is inferior to $1,200 a foot speaker cables because after all, they spent a lot of money thus it works...no it doesn't, it only effects sound just very very slightly. There was even an audiophile guy that made a challenge of $100,000 to anyone who would come to his place, and he would A/B simple cheap lamp cord, and $1,200 a foot speaker wire if they can hear, and thus pick out the expensive speaker cable...no one took him up on his offer. The other thing is that most audiophiles that claim they can hear this subtle betterness of cables are old rich guys, guys who are between 45 and 75 who have lost between 30 to 50% of their hearing over the years, especially the high frequencies, this is a natural loss of hearing, yet they're going to tell us something sounds better? LMAO!!

In speaker wires, simply look for oxygen free copper wire, the oxygen free copper won't turn green over time; these wires will come with better insulation. And according to Speaker World where I live, they say do not use connectors, simply plug the bare wire into the speaker and amp terminals; gold connectors will do nothing for sound.

Best audiophile cables: Facts and fictions explained - SoundGuys

Do speaker cables make a difference? Reviving the coathanger test (soundguys.com)

Debunking myths about audio cables - SoundGuys

 

[gleeds]

Welcome to WBF!

I once worked with a well known speaker designer who basically said exactly what you stated in your post. He also said all CD players sound the same. We did a shootout between his $300 spinner and a top MSB player on a revealing electrostatic speaker fronted by excellent amplification and the differences heard by all in attendance were anything but subtle. All to say, I imagine you would agree that a system should be very resolving before a shootout of zip cord versus a respected cable maker takes place

No arguments from this old guy, expect two things: A) I'm not sure when being 45 became a definition for being an "old guy" and B)
what is the net worth of an "old guy" that defines rich?

 

[Ron Resnick]

No, that puts speaker cables into the realm of psychosomatic problems. People can only perceive in their imagination that a $1.45 a foot speaker cables is inferior to $1,200 a foot speaker cables because after all, they spent a lot of money thus it works...no it doesn't, it only effects sound just very very slightly. There was even an audiophile guy that made a challenge of $100,000 to anyone who would come to his place, and he would A/B simple cheap lamp cord, and $1,200 a foot speaker wire if they can hear, and thus pick out the expensive speaker cable...no one took him up on his offer. The other thing is that most audiophiles that claim they can hear this subtle betterness of cables are old rich guys, guys who are between 45 and 75 who have lost between 30 to 50% of their hearing over the years, especially the high frequencies, this is a natural loss of hearing, yet they're going to tell us something sounds better? LMAO!!

In speaker wires, simply look for oxygen free copper wire, the oxygen free copper won't turn green over time; these wires will come with better insulation. And according to Speaker World where I live, they say do not use connectors, simply plug the bare wire into the speaker and amp terminals; gold connectors will do nothing for sound.

Best audiophile cables: Facts and fictions explained - SoundGuys

Do speaker cables make a difference? Reviving the coathanger test (soundguys.com)

Debunking myths about audio cables - SoundGuys

Welcome to WBF, Rekmeyata!

There are a lot of assertions in the articles in your links, but little subjective listening.

The first and third articles are almost worthless, because they merely assert -- without proof and without actual listening -- that cable electrical effects cannot be subjectively heard. Assuming one's conclusion is not an impressive display of logic.

The second article refers to people responding to test samples, but if these audio samples were recorded digitally and posted on a website for downloading by respondents then that is a whole digital-tainted mess (in my opinion).

Please throw away assumptions by other people. Set yourself up with a good stereo system, select some cables, listen carefully and leisurely, and see if you hear a difference between cables.

 

[Kingrex]

I am thinking of trying a NR cable from Shunyata. I want to place it on my digital. I am actually curious if it will improve my analog. They say its to prevent back pollution from the component to the power supply.

I am actually kind of curious how similar the QSA plug is to a NR cable. I could just try a plug. Last time I put 2 different filters on my digital and it made it black. Very clean. But I would not say natural.

 

[Rekmeyata]

Welcome to WBF!

I once worked with a well known speaker designer who basically said exactly what you stated in your post. He also said all CD players sound the same. We did a shootout between his $300 spinner and a top MSB player on a revealing electrostatic speaker fronted by excellent amplification and the differences heard by all in attendance were anything but subtle. All to say, I imagine you would agree that a system should be very resolving before a shootout of zip cord versus a respected cable maker takes place

No arguments from this old guy, expect two things: A) I'm not sure when being 45 became a definition for being an "old guy" and B)
what is the net worth of an "old guy" that defines rich?

"old" guy in my text meant when the hearing starts to degrade significantly enough where sensitivity of being able to hear subtle differences in sound begins, in my text that was meant to be around 45 to 50. (I'm 66 years old, so I'm in this class of "old" guy). When I said rich old guys, these are people who have spent a significant amount of money on a stereo system, at least $15,000, plus spent money on room acoustics, and now they make YouTube videos demonstrating their sound system and how different things they changed helped the sound when the average person today just buys a $350 soundbar! Below information was taken from a website of course; but as you can see, but the time a person reaches 50 they've lost quite a bit of hearing detail which is important for music listening if you want to hear subtle details, so when an audiophile expert who is 70 years old claims he (usually an audiophile is a man) he can hear subtle differences in cables, or whatever, he is demonstrating psychosomatic problems, where he thinks he can hear this stuff but he really can't, but makes people believe that he can. One poster then didn't like my links, whatever, they are accurate; you won't and can't hear the cable differences, you just believe you can. I had a friend who was in the recording business, and recorded professional musicians; he and I did a lot of A/B type of stuff, including wires, and since he was a pro I would even switch the wires and not tell him where the good wire went, and he couldn't tell, I couldn't tell when he did it, while we didn't use coat hanger wire, we did use lamp cord wire. I can't recall the system he used but like I said it was all pro stuff, and he had roughly $50k in studio equipment, but this was back in the late 80's, so today that would be around $100k after inflation. Sure, a nice stereo system will sound nice, but that's due to the higher end stereo system not due to using higher end speaker cables. I'm not going to argue this anymore, people have their preconceived notions of what they think they can hear, I can't change that, so there's no point in trying to convince anyone they're hearing things that aren't there; it's like the medicine man selling booze and calling it a healing potion, some people actually thought they were being healed, they weren't, but you couldn't tell them they weren't, and of course some people had psychosomatic illnesses, and the magic healing cure "worked" for them, but not really since they weren't sick to begin with. So my discussion on this now ends. Below bullet points were from an internet site on hearing from the Hear Center.

• Many children and teens can hear frequencies above 18khz, but for most people, they become inaudible by age 20
• Clinically normal hearing in teens and young adults typically goes to about 16khz
• That ceiling tends to persist for a couple of decades, but the average volume needed to hear the highest-pitched sounds steadily increases until the ability disappears
• By age 50, most people have trouble hearing noise above 14khz at all, and at average volume, the top end is usually closer to 11.2khz
• By age 70, the average person hears sounds up to 9.8khz comfortably at normal noise levels, with a top end of around 12khz for loud noises

 

[Ron Resnick]

I had a friend who was in the recording business, and recorded professional musicians; he and I did a lot of A/B type of stuff, including wires, and since he was a pro I would even switch the wires and not tell him where the good wire went, and he couldn't tell, I couldn't tell when he did it, while we didn't use coat hanger wire, we did use lamp cord wire.

Pro audio people, in general, do not have high-end audio systems in their recording studios. And if it was an all-digital, Pro-tools type system, it is even less likely that differences between cables would be heard.

people have their preconceived notions of what they think they can hear

Are you not proffering your pre-conceived notion that "all cables sound the same"?

What makes you think that because you could not hear a difference betweens cables other people cannot hear a difference between cables? Rather presumptuous of you, no?

 

[gleeds]

"old" guy in my text meant when the hearing starts to degrade significantly enough where sensitivity of being able to hear subtle differences in sound begins, in my text that was meant to be around 45 to 50. (I'm 66 years old, so I'm in this class of "old" guy). When I said rich old guys, these are people who have spent a significant amount of money on a stereo system, at least $15,000, plus spent money on room acoustics, and now they make YouTube videos demonstrating their sound system and how different things they changed helped the sound when the average person today just buys a $350 soundbar! Below information was taken from a website of course; but as you can see, but the time a person reaches 50 they've lost quite a bit of hearing detail which is important for music listening if you want to hear subtle details, so when an audiophile expert who is 70 years old claims he (usually an audiophile is a man) he can hear subtle differences in cables, or whatever, he is demonstrating psychosomatic problems, where he thinks he can hear this stuff but he really can't, but makes people believe that he can. One poster then didn't like my links, whatever, they are accurate; you won't and can't hear the cable differences, you just believe you can. I had a friend who was in the recording business, and recorded professional musicians; he and I did a lot of A/B type of stuff, including wires, and since he was a pro I would even switch the wires and not tell him where the good wire went, and he couldn't tell, I couldn't tell when he did it, while we didn't use coat hanger wire, we did use lamp cord wire. I can't recall the system he used but like I said it was all pro stuff, and he had roughly $50k in studio equipment, but this was back in the late 80's, so today that would be around $100k after inflation. Sure, a nice stereo system will sound nice, but that's due to the higher end stereo system not due to using higher end speaker cables. I'm not going to argue this anymore, people have their preconceived notions of what they think they can hear, I can't change that, so there's no point in trying to convince anyone they're hearing things that aren't there; it's like the medicine man selling booze and calling it a healing potion, some people actually thought they were being healed, they weren't, but you couldn't tell them they weren't, and of course some people had psychosomatic illnesses, and the magic healing cure "worked" for them, but not really since they weren't sick to begin with. So my discussion on this now ends. Below bullet points were from an internet site on hearing from the Hear Center.

• Many children and teens can hear frequencies above 18khz, but for most people, they become inaudible by age 20
• Clinically normal hearing in teens and young adults typically goes to about 16khz
• That ceiling tends to persist for a couple of decades, but the average volume needed to hear the highest-pitched sounds steadily increases until the ability disappears
• By age 50, most people have trouble hearing noise above 14khz at all, and at average volume, the top end is usually closer to 11.2khz
• By age 70, the average person hears sounds up to 9.8khz comfortably at normal noise levels, with a top end of around 12khz for loud noises

Don't take offense my friend! My comments on old guys were tongue in check as I am one myself. Some days I feel richer than others. A state of mind if there ever was one!

I appreciate the obvious time you have taken to research the topic and put forth your views, as I am sure do others whether they agree with your hypothesis or not. At 65 my hearing, while compromised above 12k is more attuned to subtle system changes than ever. I attribute this to a keen sense of music's physiological impact on the body. Being sensitive in regard to whether a system engages me or loses my attention completely is something I suspect a fair number of audiophile music lovers have experienced and perhaps a topic worthy of further exploration.

Naturally, free advice is worth what you pay for it. Mine is keep contributing whether folks agree with you or not. That's what the forum is for
Again, a sincere welcome.

 

[BlueFox]

I just want cables that move an electrical signal between two points without adding to, or subtracting from, the signal.

 

[ozzzy]

So, rekmeyata, think of the money you have saved...In your opinion.

ozzy

 

[Argonaut]

In the words of Obi-Wan Kenobi " This is not the forum you are looking for "

 

[Cellcbern]

I just want cables that move an electrical signal between two points without adding to, or subtracting from, the signal.

I want cables that synergize with the components they connect and help the entire system sound better. And that's what I have in my system. Every length of cable, because of its metallurgy, crystalline structure, gauge, geometry (e.g., noise cancelling/dissipating or not), processing (e.g., heat, cryo, or other treatment), dielectric, resonance damping (e.g., conductor coating), shielding (if any), method of joining to connector (e.g., set screw, solder, or weld), as well as the connectors themselves, has a sonic signature, even if that signature turns out to be relative neutrality. The same is true of every component. It follows that the way to get the best performing system is to match components and cables that maximize system synergy, something that can only be achieved via listening.

 

[Cellcbern]

No, that puts speaker cables into the realm of psychosomatic problems. People can only perceive in their imagination that a $1.45 a foot speaker cables is inferior to $1,200 a foot speaker cables because after all, they spent a lot of money thus it works...no it doesn't, it only effects sound just very very slightly. There was even an audiophile guy that made a challenge of $100,000 to anyone who would come to his place, and he would A/B simple cheap lamp cord, and $1,200 a foot speaker wire if they can hear, and thus pick out the expensive speaker cable...no one took him up on his offer. The other thing is that most audiophiles that claim they can hear this subtle betterness of cables are old rich guys, guys who are between 45 and 75 who have lost between 30 to 50% of their hearing over the years, especially the high frequencies, this is a natural loss of hearing, yet they're going to tell us something sounds better? LMAO!!

In speaker wires, simply look for oxygen free copper wire, the oxygen free copper won't turn green over time; these wires will come with better insulation. And according to Speaker World where I live, they say do not use connectors, simply plug the bare wire into the speaker and amp terminals; gold connectors will do nothing for sound.

Best audiophile cables: Facts and fictions explained - SoundGuys

Do speaker cables make a difference? Reviving the coathanger test (soundguys.com)

Debunking myths about audio cables - SoundGuys

Which "expensive" cables have you compared with simple OFC in your system and what did you find?

 

[Ron Resnick]

In the words of Obi-Wan Kenobi " This is not the forum you are looking for "

I respectfully disagree. We are open to all opinions here. Rekmeyata is welcome here.

 

[Bbock]

I want cables that synergize with the components they connect and help the entire system sound better. And that's what I have in my system. Every length of cable, because of its metallurgy, crystalline structure, gauge, geometry (e.g., noise cancelling/dissipating or not), processing (e.g., heat, cryo, or other treatment), dielectric, resonance damping (e.g., conductor coating), shielding (if any), method of joining to connector (e.g., set screw, solder, or weld), as well as the connectors themselves, has a sonic signature, even if that signature turns out to be relative neutrality. The same is true of every component. It follows that the way to get the best performing system is to match components and cables that maximize system synergy, something that can only be achieved via listening.

I wholeheartedly agree. I’m in the process of auditioning a FTA Themisto AES cable to potentially replace my Valhalla 2. Pretty good gap in price between the two with the V2 much more expensive. The Themisto is not broken in yet, yet the differences between the two cables are not subtle.

 

[microstrip]

I just want cables that move an electrical signal between two points without adding to, or subtracting from, the signal.

Physics laws say that cables in real world must change the signal. So all we can discuss is how much of change we allow or desire. And remember that our signal also carries noise that is not in the audio bandwidth.

 

[Cellcbern]

Physics laws say that cables in real world must change the signal. So all we can discuss is how much of change we allow or desire. And remember that our signal also carries noise that is not in the audio bandwidth.

Not sure exactly what the laws of physics say in this regard (or whether it matters) but it is clear from decades of listening that everything has a sonic signature - components just as much as cables. What is the difference in an audio system between changing a component and changing a cable?

 

[jasond]

It’s the old story
Though what I still don’t get over the years that people claiming all cables, DACs are thee we same are so narrow-minded and emotional. Maybe they feel some pressure of telling themselves because they are not able to compare or buy other cables etc.

In the end if someone feels completely happy with whatever system, cables etc. he‘s got that’s completely fine and there is no justification necessary.
We all are into HiFi because we love to enjoy music and that’s what unites us.

 

[Kjetil]

I don't use cables to "tune" the sound. My system is very pro-like with the 4-way crossovers running on PLparEQ under Console. All cables are selected on specs. No listening tests.

Neutrik, Canare, Monster, Mogami and cannotrememberthenames are all represented.