Coopersark's Equipment and Room Choices

[BlueFox]

Caelin,

A couple of questions.

Would it make sense to create a 'large' Typhon that goes parallel to the mains coming into the breaker box? Sort of an audiophile circuit breaker box that cleans all the circuits so that individual Typhons are not needed.

Also, is the effect of Typhons cumulative; if one works would two be better? By this I mean if somebody had a dedicated line for an amp with one Typhon on it would adding a four-plex, and two more Typhons, make an improvement.

Thanks.

 

[CGabriel]

Caelin,

A couple of questions.

Would it make sense to create a 'large' Typhon that goes parallel to the mains coming into the breaker box? Sort of an audiophile circuit breaker box that cleans all the circuits so that individual Typhons are not needed.

Also, is the effect of Typhons cumulative; if one works would two be better? By this I mean if somebody had a dedicated line for an amp with one Typhon on it would adding a four-plex, and two more Typhons, make an improvement.

Thanks.

Uh, the Typhon IS large and heavy. But I understand what you are asking. The Typhon is most effective when electrically nearest the audio system. So, while a connection at the mains may be beneficial i wouldn't consider it to have a good cost/peformance ratio.

Connecting multiple Typhons:
Yes the positive effects are cumulative however we don't promote or recommend it due to the cost. Also the added positive effects do not scale linearly. So one Typhon gets a 70% improvement while the second one only nets 25% improvement and the third 10% and so on. We have tested as many as six on a single circuit. Five is the maximum, at which point there is no noticeable improvement when adding more. If you were to do this, I wouldn't use more than two per circuit for best cost to performance ratio.

There are some people, who I affectionately call the lunatic fringe, who do have several connected to a single Triton. I believe that CooperShark is one of those. I am not sure if he is on this forum. Do you know Bud? Anyway he has experience with this concept.

 

[BlueFox]

I believe that CooperShark is one of those. I am not sure if he is on this forum. Do you know Bud? Anyway he has experience with this concept.

Yes. I just noticed him posting in an Alpha thread.
http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showthread.php?13288-Shunyata-Z-tron-Alpha-Series

I still haven't bought my first Typhon yet, so I will not be dealing with multiple Typhons for a long time, if ever.

 

[coopersark]

There are some people, who I affectionately call the lunatic fringe, who do have several connected to a single Triton. I believe that CooperShark is one of those. I am not sure if he is on this forum. Do you know Bud? Anyway he has experience with this concept.

Caelin,
Yes, I am on this forum. The slowness of my response is due to the fact that I am very time constrained and don't get to read these posts every day, let alone respond to them on a timely basis. I want to briefly share some of the details of my set up with the other readers of this forum.

When I talk of improvements, the readers of this forum know what I mean. These are the same as they are experiencing, only more so. The inner details are that much more apparent, the image placement on the sound stage are that much more precise, the stage itself is that much more wide and that much more deep. Tones are that much more dense. Again the readers of this forum get the idea, as most are Shunyata users and fans of your products.

For the sake of brevity, I have two systems, and I only want to discuss my main rig that has multiple Triton/Typhons. This system is using a dedicated sub panel, and it's own dedicated earth ground (6 foot copper rod buried on the other side of the listening room. The electric panel is in the basement, immediately below my listening room. I use Transparent Audio's top Reference cable in wall from this sub panel to my dedicated outlets. I use Spectral Audio's top componentry in that system. Spectral's Reference 400 mono block amps are extremely sensitive to grounding issues. I run both of those amplifiers on a Cyclops. (This may be changed for a Typhon in the future.) My choices are somewhat dictated by those issues as to minimize any potential grounding differentials. I therefore have both of my amps on a single dedicated line through that solo Cyclops, even though I have multiple dedicated lines on the amplifier end of my listening room.

Additionally, I use two Triton/Typhons for my front end equipment, with the exception of the Spectral 4000SL CD player, which sounds considerably more open, extended, "airy", and detailed on its own dedicated line, using only a Shunyata Alpha digital cable. These two pair of T/T's are on a single dedicated line. I use one pair for anything digital, such as my Berkeley Alpha DAC, or my Sequerra digital broadcast monitor tuner, and my Grace headphone amp/DAC. The other pair is for my Spectral 30SSII preamp, Sequerra FM Reference Signature tuner, and Stax SRM 007t-II headphone amp. All four Shunyata boxes are on the same dedicated line. These are all very low current devices, and they are never all turned on at the same time. The most that would be used at one time would be the preamp, a tuner, the DAC and a headphone amplifier. Again that is the most and collectively that is well below the capability of one 20 amp line!

Back in the days when I had upgraded my Hydra for a VRay. I had tried a second VRay and noticed a positive sonic benefit of using two of these instead of just one. I followed that path with the VRayII's and then the Tritons. When the Typhons were added there became an even further benefit.

(I am using ZiTron Anaconda power cords from the wall to the Tritons and Cyclops and ZiTron Anaconda jumpers from Tritons to Typhons. Power cords to all of my componentry from the conditioners are the King Cobra CX's.)

All I can say is that this set up does sound better than a single pair of Triton/Typhon. Yes, it is "lunatic fringe" and yes, the bulk of the improvement for any user is to be gained in employing just one pair in their audio system. That being said, life is too short and I am in a fortunate position of being able to own and enjoy the equipment on the level that I do. In the context of a very high end and ultra resolving audio system, if we are talking a collective 25-30% improvement in power conditioning by adding the second pair of Triton/Typhons or a secondary Typhon to a Triton if you have the open outlets to do so, sure is worth it! As a percentage of the system and room cost it really is insignificant, and relative to the improvement, it is a bargain.

I hope this helps.

Best regards,
Rob

 

[RichDavis]

One thing that I've read is that speaker placement is supposed to be a certain distance from the side and back wall, etc. and it's dependent on the rood size, type of speaker (dipole vs bi-pole), etc. etc.

I don't want to be overly critical, but do you think that the size speakers and the room size should be a little different? To me, for the size speaker that you have, wouldn't it be better to have a larger (wider) room as to not have the speakers so close to the side walls? Just my initial observation.

Also, there are lots of different thoughts as to room treatment, some people prefer the more dead room vs a little more life. I've been in various recording studios and I wouldn't necessarily design a listening room to mimmic a recording studio as they sometimes can be too dead.

Either way, it's nice to see someone going to the lengths that you did to create a really nice listening room as it does make a huge difference.

I had an acoustic engineer come to my house many years ago, take measurements, etc. and his background was designing concert halls for orchestras in Russia, so he was delving into the realm of small room acoustics research and developing software to allow people to input room dimensions or assist in the design of the room. This was back many years ago. I found out that my room dimensions were so awful that it was just better to do a more affordable fix and it would have been better to just start from scratch. I did make some changes as recommended and it did make a big difference. It did also give me a lot more useful information as to what I hope to do next time around so that I can get a good room FIRST and then deal with the equipment.

Either way, thanks for your in depth posting. It certainly shows what can be done to improve the Quality of Sound, which is what it's all about.

I know that for most circumstances, getting the room to be soundproofed is the first priority as it's amazing how loud outside noises can infiltrate our listening room. Secondly, just getting decent room treatment from folks like ASC, RPG, etc. and have them well placed is another relatively simple thing to do, then there is getting dedicated power.

 

[RichDavis]

Have you checked out the Richard Gray Power Company Sub Stations?

 

[RichDavis]

I couldn't resist, but here's a few YouTube videos on a cost no object recording studio that most people have never heard of. They discuss each room (3 total) and its a very interesting information. It's a VERY cool complex.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZjKVndZSZqE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_BadrCUelg8

 

[coopersark]

One thing that I've read is that speaker placement is supposed to be a certain distance from the side and back wall, etc. and it's dependent on the rood size, type of speaker (dipole vs bi-pole), etc. etc.

I don't want to be overly critical, but do you think that the size speakers and the room size should be a little different? To me, for the size speaker that you have, wouldn't it be better to have a larger (wider) room as to not have the speakers so close to the side walls? Just my initial observation.

Also, there are lots of different thoughts as to room treatment, some people prefer the more dead room vs a little more life. I've been in various recording studios and I wouldn't necessarily design a listening room to mimmic a recording studio as they sometimes can be too dead.

Either way, it's nice to see someone going to the lengths that you did to create a really nice listening room as it does make a huge difference.

I had an acoustic engineer come to my house many years ago, take measurements, etc. and his background was designing concert halls for orchestras in Russia, so he was delving into the realm of small room acoustics research and developing software to allow people to input room dimensions or assist in the design of the room. This was back many years ago. I found out that my room dimensions were so awful that it was just better to do a more affordable fix and it would have been better to just start from scratch. I did make some changes as recommended and it did make a big difference. It did also give me a lot more useful information as to what I hope to do next time around so that I can get a good room FIRST and then deal with the equipment.

Either way, thanks for your in depth posting. It certainly shows what can be done to improve the Quality of Sound, which is what it's all about.

I know that for most circumstances, getting the room to be soundproofed is the first priority as it's amazing how loud outside noises can infiltrate our listening room. Secondly, just getting decent room treatment from folks like ASC, RPG, etc. and have them well placed is another relatively simple thing to do, then there is getting dedicated power.

Rich --
Thank you for your nice comments. Art Noxon of Acoustic Science Corporation had helped with my room design and set me up accordingly, either with his product or other product to use, such as my drapes, which are for acoustic laboratory use. My speakers are about 4 feet from the back wall. It took a long time to voice those Q'5 to the room. Days of listening and minor adjustments, then after two months of play time break in more fine tuning! (This is where the value of a good dealer comes into play and the folks at Overture Audio are absolutely fantastic in their customer support and system set up assistance.) In my listening room, the side walls evaporate when listening! The soundstage is as wide and as deep as the recording venue.
There are six fundamental tenants that are essential to crafting and assembling a superior sounding system. Perhaps one day, I will go into them in more detail, but here is a list of those six fundamentals in the order of their importance:

1.) The listening room and its acoustic treatments. This is going to determine the ultimate sound of the system. (My room is a room within a room - double floors, walls and ceiling.)
2.) The electric delivery and power conditioning to that room. This is going to determine how effective the system's electronics will perform.
3.) The correct sized speaker for that room. In combination with the room and its acoustic treatments, one is striving for an even wave length and sound pressurization of that room equally from all frequencies. In other words, the room, its acoustic treatments, and speaker should act as "one" and compliment each other.
4.) The proper electronics for the selected speaker. The right amplifier choice for the selected speaker is paramount, then rest of the electronics should be chosen with special attention paid to impedance matching of the components. I am a big believer of the same electronics throughput from the same manufacturer.
5.) The correct signal cabling. I am a big believer in impedance matched cabling for the electronics.
6.) Vibration control.

It is unrealistic to think that all audiophiles can adhere to these tenants, as most do not have the real estate for a dedicated room and electric. It is also unrealistic to think that all audiophiles can make the financial commitment to put together a reference level audio system. What is realistic is that audiophiles select a speaker that sounds great in their existing room and match that speaker and make it "sing" within whatever means they can afford, and to have fun doing that and even more fun listening to the results. Again, percentages out the window, but whatever upgrades that are spent on power conditioning will always remain in one's audio system, whatever else they choose to upgrade or change over the years.

The Magicos and my room "sing" together as one even pressure wave launch. It is jaw dropping awesome!
I am obviously a big fan of Shyunyata's power conditioning/delivery products, and have been so for many years. I feel no need what so ever to look elsewhere.

Happy listening!
Best,
Rob

 

[edorr]

Rich --
3.) The correct sized speaker for that room. In combination with the room and its acoustic treatments, one is striving for an even wave length and sound pressurization of that room equally from all frequencies. In other words, the room, its acoustic treatments, and speaker should act as "one" and compliment each other.

Are you using Q5 instead of Q7 based on this consideration?

Rich --
4.) The proper electronics for the selected speaker. The right amplifier choice for the selected speaker is paramount, then rest of the electronics should be chosen with special attention paid to impedance matching of the components. I am a big believer of the same electronics throughput from the same manufacturer.

What other electronics did you evaluate before settling on Spectral electronics? Ironically, if this are the electronics that get the best performance out of your system, these are "budget components" in the context of your overall system outlay.

 

[coopersark]

No. I owned the Q5's before the Q7's were brought to market. The Q7's would be too large for my room and the 5's are a perfect fit.

I am sure that you are aware that in "high end" audio there is no direct relationship between price and performance. I could write a dissertation as to why I had chosen Spectral (which punches WAY above its price class), but one of the most important considerations with selecting electronics is the longevity of the manufacturer and proximity to a reputable dealer who also shows longevity and sustainability. (I am not a "preamp of the month" kind of guy. My previous brand was Mark Levinson, which I had owned for well over a decade and a half.) I had initially auditioned the Magico's with Spectral electronics and was extremely impressed with this combination. The Spectral gear not only sounds fantastic (enough so that I am currently building a third system using Spectral electronics), is reliable, with close dealer support from Overture Audio, who has been in business for years. Other electronics that I had considered did not make the "cut" in terms of manufacturer longevity, dealer proximity, or support.

I will not invest too much money in a DAC, as doing so would be a "fools game" in today's rapidly changing and evolving digital world. Day Sequerra is literally down the road from me, and I have had excellent support from David Day with my tuners. I hope that helps to clarify some of the thoughts that went into my choices for you.

 

[RichDavis]

Magicos. Nuff said. those are great speakers! So many speakers and not enough room/money.

I always like the MBL, I just feel in love with those the first time I heard them, but I have to wait a little longer to get my dream system.

I just wanted to ask if you have experience with the RGPC sub stations, I've heard great things about them.

 

[microstrip]

No. I owned the Q5's before the Q7's were brought to market. The Q7's would be too large for my room and the 5's are a perfect fit.

I am sure that you are aware that in "high end" audio there is no direct relationship between price and performance. I could write a dissertation as to why I had chosen Spectral (which punches WAY above its price class), but one of the most important considerations with selecting electronics is the longevity of the manufacturer and proximity to a reputable dealer who also shows longevity and sustainability. (I am not a "preamp of the month" kind of guy. My previous brand was Mark Levinson, which I had owned for well over a decade and a half.) I had initially auditioned the Magico's with Spectral electronics and was extremely impressed with this combination. The Spectral gear not only sounds fantastic (enough so that I am currently building a third system using Spectral electronics), is reliable, with close dealer support from Overture Audio, who has been in business for years. Other electronics that I had considered did not make the "cut" in terms of manufacturer longevity, dealer proximity, or support.

I will not invest too much money in a DAC, as doing so would be a "fools game" in today's rapidly changing and evolving digital world. Day Sequerra is literally down the road from me, and I have had excellent support from David Day with my tuners. I hope that helps to clarify some of the thoughts that went into my choices for you.

Coopersark,

An excellent post for starting a great thread. Can we ask Steve or you to do so?

 

[coopersark]

Steve, If you could, please move this thread as a new start. I do not know how to do that. Thanks, Rob

 

[RichDavis]

I didn't mean to hurt your feelings. I don't have time to read the entire post, that would take a rather long amount of my time to digest everything. I simply saw most of the photos and based on the photos, it appears to me that the room might be what I would have done for those speakers for my personal taste and judging from the amount of treatment on either side of the speaker and behind, it just looks like it might be a little too dead for my taste.

I've read many sites discussing room acoustics and have talked with acoustic engineers and have been in a variety of rooms ranging from recording studios large and small, etc. and it just appeared to go against everything I've been taught as far as room size to speaker size.

Maybe your room sounds great and obviously a lot of expense and time has gone into it, and I understand your point but I was just commenting on that it just looks like a small room for those speakers that it might sound a little confining.