Contenders for Most Musical and Best Two-Way Mini-Monitors of All Time?

[PeterA]

I would love to see some photos of the other two-way mini monitors that people like so much. Preferably in their own systems.

 

[DaveyF]

Hey Davey,

Have you ever heard or have thoughts on SF Extrema?

I have heard the Extrema's on several different occasions. The Extrema's are a great speaker..and would be a strong consideration for the 'right' room. However, as micro states above ( his impressions align with mine on these speakers), you have to carefully match the room size to the speaker...and I was always pretty certain that in my small room the Extrema's would not function well. The GH's are ( at least to my ears) a more complete sound ( and design) and have purer mids and highs ( although the tweeter is very similar in both speakers). The GH's are also more room friendly when it comes to smaller rooms...which is why I nominated them in the first place. While the Extrema's can drop down lower in the bass than the GH's, with a good sub, the GH's are, at least IMHO, the better option for most.
I am a VERY big believer in making sure that the speaker one utilizes works well in the room that it is going to be placed in. IMO, way too many a'philes make the mistake of shoe horning too big a speaker into a too small room...and usually the resulting sound leaves a lot to be desired.

BTW, i have also heard the new SF EX3MA's...the 'replacement' for the Extrema. A nice speaker in its own right ( although priced at a point that many contenders present a serious option), but once again probably needing a larger space to work at its best.

 

[andromedaaudio]

Yes that was exactly the graph i was looking for , i actually bought the lautsprecher jahr buch myself .
Any way i dont want to sound disrespectfull or what ever , but seeing that curve it just looks like the mid is connected to the tweeter and just left it without adjusting, you have a mid that is playing at 82 db , at 3,7 kHz it drops to 75 db(natural roll off probably) , the tw takes over and is playing at a 10 db higher level from the X over point .
You re talking +- 5 db tolerance.

Note if your honest to yourself and measurements its not that easy to achieve a flat curve , if one wants to cheat okay anything is possible

Hi, some additional comments:

The target from Kaiser is to have the dip at 3,8 kHz according to Munson and Fletcher curves of equal loudness. But to have almost linear frequency resoponse under 20 to 30 degree rotation of the speaker. The human ear integrates the frequency response of the direct and the diffuse field. It needs this speciality to adress the Blauert bands (human spatial hearing).
It is easy to optimize for flat frequency response. It is just one click in the frequency computer model. The art of engineering is to find the right requirement taken psychoacoustics into account.

Here is a link to the Kaiser website as well with more information about the curves. In German, but the curves are there anyway :
http://www.kaiser-acoustics.com/en/speakers/chiara/lautsprecherjahrbuch-2014-chiara.pdf

 

[MtnHam]

It's amazing how great minis can make such beautiful music.

By musical I mean sound more like Magico Mini rather than Magico Q1. Along the same line of thought, looking for a list of greatest of all time - Hall of Fame stuff, as some of the older stuff frequently sounds so much better than the new stuff championed by the media elites (who are really marketing reps for manufacturers, helping them sell the new model).

What makes these greats sound so good and real on certain recordings?

Any votes for Fritz Speakers? IMO, they are a great speaker and value.

 

[caesar]

Well, as was stated before, and will be, many times again (obviously, some will never manage to come to terms with it) a speaker can’t be “musical”, regardless of what “musical" means. A speaker is a tool, not an orchestra conductor or a musician – nor is it a musical instrument. A speaker should function with the least amount of losses to the signal it received, so ideally, a speaker will be as “analytical” or as “transparent” as possible.

Unfortunately, these terms in audiophile jargon have bad connotation just because someone somewhere decided that some sort of coloration can be called “analytical”. But, some others decided that some coloration can be called “musical”. None should have a place in proper loudspeaker analysis and description, they both mean nothing. But if you insist, I would argue that, the most transparent and analytical loudspeaker will also be the most musical, (precisely what Magico is starving to do, if, god forbid, we look at objective data).

Cannata,

That is, of course, one perspective. However, as with any complex situation, there are multiple perspectives....

Your post it explains why magico has so many raving fans. But this is only one small market niche.

The reality is that most people into this hobby are looking for something different. As they say, people don't want to buy a drill. Instead they want a hole! And the "hole" is, of course, emotional connection to the music.

Don't agree with me? ok... But for the last couple of shows wolf has been showing magico with CAT. He knows where the big money to be made is: it's musicality!

 

[caesar]

As a SF owner, I happen to also like Magico's. IMHO, the Q3's and the smaller Q1's are excellent speakers...although I slightly prefer the Q3. I do think the tweets are a little 'hot'...but that applies to almost all metal dome tweets...to a greater or lesser extent ( to my ear, YMMV).
I could VERY easily live and be happy with the Magico's...
In fact, IF i were to move to a much larger room ( one where the GH's couldn't perform), the Q3's would be on my very short list.

Hey Davey,

I know you are a big fan of CAT, and I just heard the new S5 with CAT at Axpona. Simply stated, fabulous sound! I never had a problem with S series tweeter, but I think it has been improved anyway. But most people I ran into were saying :" Fukc'n A! This is by far the best I have heard Magico sound!"

 

[DaveyF]

Caesar, I have actually never heard CAT with Magico...

I would suspect that a great combo would be the Q3's with the new CAT JL 5 and the new CAT Renaissance Black path preamp. However, this is only a suspicion.

 

[MadFloyd]

Hey Davey,

I know you are a big fan of CAT, and I just heard the new S5 with CAT at Axpona. Simply stated, fabulous sound! I never had a problem with S series tweeter, but I think it has been improved anyway. But most people I ran into were saying :" Fukc'n A! This is by far the best I have heard Magico sound!"

caesar, can you tell me whose room this is and what the other electronics are? I head CAT with Vivid at Axpona a couple years ago and loved the sound. Always wondered how it would mate with Magico...

 

[caesar]

caesar, can you tell me whose room this is and what the other electronics are? I head CAT with Vivid at Axpona a couple years ago and loved the sound. Always wondered how it would mate with Magico...

The room is 642. I think the room was a joint venture between magico and a local recording genius playing his tapes, International Phonograph. They had the larger CAT monoblocks in the room driven by the top of the line CAT preamp. Since the room was packed, I couldn't really maneuver to check out the cables, cartridge on the Kronos, etc.

As for mating Magico with CAT, I think this is the 2nd time Wolf is playing this system at a show. I know it got great reviews from all the elites at CES, and now he's taking it to normal people.

TREMENDOUS transparency on some of the excellent recordings! The only downside I can think of is warmth in an un-ventillated room.

 

[RDSChicago]

Surprised no one has mentioned the Trenner & Friedl Art's. I had a pair in to demo and found them to be quite the attractive speaker in both the looks and sound departments. Other monitors I've had are the Lawrence Audio Violin's and Reference 3A De Capo BE's. Interesting how the Kef LS50's aren't mentioned much anymore.

 

[mullard88]

I can nominete 4 mini monitors that are musical:
1) Celestion SL 600
2) Spica TC 50
3) Yamaha NS 1
4) Rogers LS3/5A
To date, I still have the Rogers LS3/5A and the Yamaha NS 1, both of which I use in my bedroom.

 

[XV-1]

Linn Kan's - the mini monitor that was not a BBC monitor clone. Detailed, full of drive and musical as hell

 

[LL21]

I can nominete 4 mini monitors that are musical:
1) Celestion SL 600
2) Spica TC 50
3) Yamaha NS 1
4) Rogers LS3/5A
To date, I still have the Rogers LS3/5A and the Yamaha NS 1, both of which I use in my bedroom.

Big fan of Celestions. SL6Si was my very first set of speakers. Bought the demo pair a year out of college...stunning speakers. I would not put them up for best 2-way of all time, but they were incredibly good speakers and incredibly good for the money at $600 if you really, really wanted midrange magic, voicing, an alacrity in guitar strings, harps, etc...and if you were lucky and got the setup just right, decent bass.

 

[cannata]

Yes that was exactly the graph i was looking for , i actually bought the lautsprecher jahr buch myself .
Any way i dont want to sound disrespectfull or what ever , but seeing that curve it just looks like the mid is connected to the tweeter and just left it without adjusting, you have a mid that is playing at 82 db , at 3,7 kHz it drops to 75 db(natural roll off probably) , the tw takes over and is playing at a 10 db higher level from the X over point .
You re talking +- 5 db tolerance.

Note if your honest to yourself and measurements its not that easy to achieve a flat curve , if one wants to cheat okay anything is possible

It must be Armageddon, because I do agree with you on this one

 

[slcaudiophile]

Sorry, I had missed you post. I have tried many amplifiers on the B&WSS25, as they are there since long - the old Classe M1000, that cold sounded horrible, but after one day warm up sounded great, the Krell S300i - is was great match, both the Dartzeel NH108 and the 8550, the Devialet 400 and curiously I was not a fan of the cj's on them. The Mini II's played with the Devialet, the Dartzeel 8550 and the cj premier 350 (solid state, high power) but still only in the experience phase for a limited time.

The Mini's were

i found the CJ tube stuff to work f****** awesome with the b&w 25s. if you can find a P11 CJ you are in biz. i seriously miss them so much. ew ...

 

[andromedaaudio]

May be it can be solved with thick cables

It must be Armageddon, because I do agree with you on this one

 

[cannata]

May be it can be solved with thick cables

I think thin will be better, we should argue about that

 

[bonzo75]

From what I heard of the Stenheim alumine 5 at Munich, I won't be surprised if their monitors sound the best

 

[sujay]

From what I heard of the Stenheim alumine 5 at Munich, I won't be surprised if their monitors sound the best

I missed the smaller Stenheim.....I did listen to the TAD compact evolution one and that for me is certainly right up there with the best. The scale they produce challenges proper floorstanders!

 

[Duke LeJeune]

One of the most musical mini-monitors I've ever heard, especially for the price, was the sadly discontinued Cliffhanger Bulldog. But it was a three-way, so it fails to meet the criteria for this thread. That being said, because of the three-way format, its off-axis energy was considerably smoother than what you'll find with most small two-ways, so it was very non-fatiguing to listen to long-term.

Several people have mentioned over-emphasis in the upper mid/lower treble region on the Q1, and the root cause may well be excess off-axis energy at the bottom end of the tweeter's passband. With a speaker like that (7" woofer + 1" dome), the designer cannot optimize the on-axis and off-axis responses simultaneously... unless he does something like what Amphion is doing with their tweeter waveguide.