Constant Power

[Phelonious Ponk]

Atmasphere said to Phelonious Ponk, "I think you got it right this time, and so now we come back to wondering how loud you are actually playing the system. I suspect it is not actually playing as loud as you think. That is why I was saying a measurement would sort it out.
Put another way, if you are saying it is 'really loud' and you are only getting peaks of 95 db, then we can conclude that you are experiencing the phenomena. Subjectively, if odd orders are not a problem you will find no upper limit where it sounds 'too loud'. But I like a measurement."

On 8/2 Atmasphere said, "I don't have a meter"

Ralph, why does Tim need a meter to tell how loud his system is when you don't even own one, how do you know how loud you are listening?

Wendell

Tim doesn't need a meter. At what db my system becomes fatigueing is not relevant, to me anyway. I've listened loud enough to obliterate the noisefloor of my listening room and wake the neighbors without even realizing it was that loud. No fatigue. So what number that represents is pretty meaningless to me.

Tim

 

[theguesswho]

I know Tim does not need a meter.

Ralph is the one who needs a meter as he is the one stating he listens at 115db!!! And yet he does not own a SPL meter!

I too know when my system is playing loud and I know I don't need a meter. But how loud? I don't know or care also. But when you state a fact and have no way of verifying that fact I call foul!

Wendell

 

[Atmasphere]

Atmasphere said to Phelonious Ponk, "I think you got it right this time, and so now we come back to wondering how loud you are actually playing the system. I suspect it is not actually playing as loud as you think. That is why I was saying a measurement would sort it out.
Put another way, if you are saying it is 'really loud' and you are only getting peaks of 95 db, then we can conclude that you are experiencing the phenomena. Subjectively, if odd orders are not a problem you will find no upper limit where it sounds 'too loud'. But I like a measurement."

On 8/2 Atmasphere said, "I don't have a meter"

Ralph, why does Tim need a meter to tell how loud his system is when you don't even own one, how do you know how loud you are listening?

Wendell

I used to have a meter until it got stolen. But we still always have one at shows (RMAF, THE Show, etc.), which I have borrowed since and used at home, and now know what volume control position does what on the preamp, since it has a stepped volume control.

Tim, its good that you are happy. When you state that you play your system loud though you don't actually know if that is true. What you do know is that is sounds loud and you are saying that is good enough. The irony here is still striking to me. While I don't have a meter for now, at least I have used one. OTOH, you simply refuse, although it seems to me that otherwise you tend to take an objective position in a good number of debates, yet here you are opting for the subjective position instead. Like does throw a curve ball occasionally, no?

 

[mep]

Here is the web address for a free sound pressure level meter app for the Iphone/Ipad so there are no excuses:

http://https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/ue-spl/id332300068?mt=8

 

[microstrip]

Here is the web address for a free sound pressure level meter app for the Iphone/Ipad so there are no excuses:

http://https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/ue-spl/id332300068?mt=8

I do not have an Iphone or Ipad, but I have a soundmeter, and two microphones calibrated in level and frequency ...

I have no experience with the Ip's, but a close friend owns a Sansung phone with a sound level meter application and it is very inaccurate - IMHO not adequate for audio purposes. Curiously the error of the old RadioShack sound level meter was less than 1.5 dB in the dB(C) - minimal weighting setting.

 

[mep]

For the intended purpose of getting a rough idea of what listening levels Tim considers to be loud coupled with the fact that it is free, this should suffice.

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

I used to have a meter until it got stolen. But we still always have one at shows (RMAF, THE Show, etc.), which I have borrowed since and used at home, and now know what volume control position does what on the preamp, since it has a stepped volume control.

Tim, its good that you are happy. When you state that you play your system loud though you don't actually know if that is true. What you do know is that is sounds loud and you are saying that is good enough. The irony here is still striking to me. While I don't have a meter for now, at least I have used one. OTOH, you simply refuse, although it seems to me that otherwise you tend to take an objective position in a good number of debates, yet here you are opting for the subjective position instead. Like does throw a curve ball occasionally, no?

I'll download Mark's app and see what I've got. Wouldn't want to cause an irony injury. Ralph, are you measuring from the listening position or from some set distance from the speaker?

Tim

 

[theguesswho]

Atmasphere said, "I used to have a meter until it got stolen." And this classic, "While I don't have a meter for now, at least I have used one."

I too used to have a spl meter till my dog ate it. Now I cant tell how loud my woofer is!

Oh yeah! And the dog ate my homework. (Oh, Sister Mary Margaret forgive me for that one)

Wendell

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

The link isn't working Mark. I get a "no server" error.

Tim

 

[Roger Dressler]

Put another way, if you are saying it is 'really loud' and you are only getting peaks of 95 db, then we can conclude that you are experiencing the phenomena.

When I listen "moderately loud" the peaks (RS meter Cwtd fast) are 80 dB. So to me, 95 dB would in fact be really loud.

Just to say that "really loud" is uncalibrated.:b

 

[mep]

The link isn't working Mark. I get a "no server" error.

Tim

Tim-Google SPL apps for the Iphone/IPad. That was the first one I came across.

 

[Roger Dressler]

The link isn't working Mark. I get a "no server" error.

Remove the first "http://" Like this.

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

I found a bunch on the app store.

Tim

 

[FrantzM]

I do find interesting that a person designing gear wouldn't have a sound meter but that could be just me ...

 

[theguesswho]

FrantzM said, "I do find interesting that a person designing gear wouldn't have a sound meter but that could be just me ..."

I say yeah! and its the same guy who tells Tim that he needs one!

Oh but we forget, HE USED TO HAVE ONE!

Wendell

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

Well, I've got one now, in my iPhone. Don't know when I'm going to get around to the same test, with the meter though. That test would be finding the highest volume I'm comfortable listening to for an extended period of time, muting leaving it off for awhile then unmuting to see if it has the same impact of the original experience, which was "holy crap! I had no idea I was listening that loud!" Then capturing "that loud" on a meter. I have a family and neighbors. I can't just do this whenever I like. The irony is I'm doing this to satisfy those who think I must be experiencing fatigue, or not be listening that loud, at these times. This is meaningless to me, as what we're talking about is louder than I ever really want to listen. When I've come back into the room and unmuted at these times, it has been way louder than necessary. And bear in mind, when you guys are boating or golfing or whatever you do for fun, I'm playing in a six piece rock and roll band. I'm not unaccustomed to loud.

But eventually I'll measure it and see what I get.

Tim

 

[theguesswho]

Hello, I downloaded the sol meter to my iPhone and registered 122db during the dynamic passages of my favorite album! Wow I would not have thought that I was listening that loud!

Wendell

 

[theguesswho]

Hi again, wow this is fun. Just cranked it up again and saw 125db! woohoo! Don't want to listen this loud all of the time but the little misses is out.
So according to Atmasphere, then perhaps I have less distortion than even him if I am able to crank it up to these levels. Oh bass pig would be proud!

Wendell

 

[Roger Dressler]

Hello, I downloaded the sol meter to my iPhone and registered 122db during the dynamic passages of my favorite album! Wow I would not have thought that I was listening that loud!

Wendell, are you using slow or fast? I assume C wtg. But those of us with "ample" bass may be getting a rather different reading than others without such good bass capability that does not correlate well with loudness impression. When it comes to hearing the distortion products we're discussing in this thread, I would submit A-wtg would be more relevant.

Also, what's the crest factor of your favorite album? The impression of loudness may vary significantly among recordings with "the same" peak SPL readings.

If we really want to compare loudness of our various systems, it would be best for us to all use the same recording and the same metering. For the song, it does not have to be an esoteric recording. Just something we might all have on hand and set its loudness to match our nominal listening level. For metering, I'd suggest A-wtg, slow, to remove the bass uncertainty and make reading the level more consistent. Then we'd have a shot at apples-to-apples comparisons (notwithstanding that none of these Radio Shack or iPhone SPL meters are what could be called calibrated).

I would find that information very interesting. Anyone want to suggest a recording?

 

[cooljazz]

Anyone want to suggest a recording?

The Sounds of Silence...by the Guess Who?





Sorry....no excuse...not even drinkin'.