Can anyone compare CJ to McIntosh?

[Bill Stevenson]

Please help me narrow my choices for amp and preamp for a new system. If I buy new: CJ Classic 60 SE, or LP125sa SE. Or, Mac MC275 VI. Probably a CJ ET5 no matter what amp. Are there any compatibility concerns with CJ/Mc combinations? Can anyone comment on the sound of the newest series MC 275-VI with the current CJ amps? One advantage of the MC 275 is that if more power is required I can simply buy another one and use them as monoblocks.

If I buy used there are current listings for CJ amps both stereo and monoblocks from 140 watts to 275 watts. Is there any issue with particular models of older CJ that I should know about? Again, I think the ET5 is what I will buy, but would like to know of alternatives that might be worth considering. I don't know about Mc preamps, recommendations would be appreciated. Beside the increased AC load, is there any other reason to stay away from bigger tube amps such as Premier 5 or 8A? I know 16 output tubes makes tube rolling somewhat prohibitive, but what about reliability? Would a dedicated 20 amp power supply for each of these big amps be necessary?

My speakers are new Sony SS-AR2, sensitivity rating 89 db, the room is 14'x20' with 12' ceilings. The room is open to the rest of the house on one end in a very open floor plan typical of South Florida. I listen to mostly jazz (small group) and sometimes classical and am particularly fond of the human voice. Listening levels are moderate. My best guess is that ~125 wpc would be adequate, with 60 wpc borderline sufficient and the big bruiser amps would be loafing while heating up the joint.

Thanks in advance for your thoughts.

Bill

 

[LL21]

Hi...nice choices! I have not heard McIntosh so cannot help there. But it seems you are also wondering about various CJ pieces and second hand as well. I have owned a CJ preamp consecutively for nearly 15 years (PV14L, ACT 2 Series 1 and now GAT). I also owned the venerable MV60.

My thoughts on 2nd hand are that CJ's older pieces are excellent, and they continue to upgrade/recap add new Teflon capacitors to them for owners. Depending on your appetite for second hand, (and for lots of tubes), there is a CJ GAT and Premier 8a (upgraded by CJ) available second hand on Audiogon for what appears to be within your budget given that you are looking at the CJ ET5. World class performance at a price that is by comparison very reasonable.

In terms of power, I would personally go for 125 watts or higher as well...the newer CJ 60 watt tubes are quite powerful but if you don't want to have to think about it, 125 should suffice. I only recommended the 275 watt Premier 8s because of their price, their quality and the fact that CJ appear to have upgraded them. I have spoken with an owner of such an upgraded pair who has owned his Premier 8s for years (upgraded), and he loves them. Also, they are by all accounts not so far from the current flagship ART monos.

If not for you, LP125M or ARTsa are winners. the Premier 140 of old (the generation of my ACT 2) had some detractors say a bit stiff for a CJ and others complained of reliability issues.

Generally, in 15 years I have not had an issue owning CJ. And their service has always been top notch in my experience...I have called frequently asking questions, needed equipment voltage changed, etc...and they have also been prompt and spot on for work.

 

[Garth]

Please help me narrow my choices for amp and preamp for a new system. If I buy new: CJ Classic 60 SE, or LP125sa SE. Or, Mac MC275 VI. Probably a CJ ET5 no matter what amp. Are there any compatibility concerns with CJ/Mc combinations? Can anyone comment on the sound of the newest series MC 275-VI with the current CJ amps? One advantage of the MC 275 is that if more power is required I can simply buy another one and use them as monoblocks.

If I buy used there are current listings for CJ amps both stereo and monoblocks from 140 watts to 275 watts. Is there any issue with particular models of older CJ that I should know about? Again, I think the ET5 is what I will buy, but would like to know of alternatives that might be worth considering. I don't know about Mc preamps, recommendations would be appreciated. Beside the increased AC load, is there any other reason to stay away from bigger tube amps such as Premier 5 or 8A? I know 16 output tubes makes tube rolling somewhat prohibitive, but what about reliability? Would a dedicated 20 amp power supply for each of these big amps be necessary?

My speakers are new Sony SS-AR2, sensitivity rating 89 db, the room is 14'x20' with 12' ceilings. The room is open to the rest of the house on one end in a very open floor plan typical of South Florida. I listen to mostly jazz (small group) and sometimes classical and am particularly fond of the human voice. Listening levels are moderate. My best guess is that ~125 wpc would be adequate, with 60 wpc borderline sufficient and the big bruiser amps would be loafing while heating up the joint.

Thanks in advance for your thoughts.

Bill

I am not the right guy to tell which models to buy but I have owned both CJ and Mac . IMO only Mac is more of a straight line or curve in that most if not all models sound the same as in the same family group. No real bad ones I have heard . CJ has some great models great sound and some that I would not want to own more ups and downs than Mac.

Macs have the glass front big meter look Cj more metal less glass. As to big tube amps the draw backs are IMO weight they are heavy , tube cost a big amp costs a lot to retube and often over looked if you have never owned one HEAT by the end of the night they can be cooking as in the whole room is getting warm. I had and still have not in use a CJ P1 nice amp but older now.

If you are buying used ask if their are any mods often big amps get changed some better some worse. Also listen to a few amps often a person likes the sound of a tube be it EL34 or 6550 or Kt88 just ones I have used by the way not all EL34s sound the same but a tube type does have a type of sound might as well get the one you like.

Again only my opinion have fun

 

[Adrian Low]

Any way to listen at the dealer? I know in Toronto most dealers are happy to bring the equipment to your home, leave it and let you enjoy it for a few days. Failing that, bring your speakers to the dealer, though that's more difficult.

The new Mc 275 is identical except cosmetically to the 60th Anniversary model. It's been bulletproof so far, as was the Gen 5 and 4 in my experience. The only issue has been the odd bad input tube, easily and inexpensively replaced. Drives most speakers really well, very obviously a tube amp; warm, rich and smooth sounding, very good bass punch without the snap of ss. Not the most transparent, but overall very well balanced. Big, bold and eminently musical.

Operationally, the amp does not need to be biased, so it's basically plug and play. There are LEDS below the input tubes that glow from amber to green, when the amp is warming up. Green means the amp is ready to play. Also, if one of the output tubes is bad, the input tubes will glow amber.

No need for matching output tubes, though virtually all our clients buy replacement tubes that way.

One interesting tidbit that you can try if your speakers are bi-wireable. The output transformer taps can be independently connected to your speakers. In other words, you can connect the 4 ohm tap to the bass and 8 ohm to the highs, OR vice versa. OR just use one of the taps to the entire speaker. One of these configurations will sound better than the others.

Many clients with B&W 802 Diamond, for example, will connect the 8ohm tap to the highs and 4 ohms to the bass. Whatever you choose to do, this tweak is absolutely free and offers a very significant improvement.

Feel free to ask if you have any other questions.

Best,
Adrian Low

 

[Johnny Vinyl]

Many, many years ago I had an MC2505, but I've always really lusted after the MC275. The gentleman I bought my Nottingham TT from had one paired with some pretty huge Martin Logan's (can't remember which model...CLXs perhaps). It was simply awesome.

Do you think that my Genesis' would make for a good combo with that MC275?

 

[Adrian Low]

Many, many years ago I had an MC2505, but I've always really lusted after the MC275. The gentleman I bought my Nottingham TT from had one paired with some pretty huge Martin Logan's (can't remember which model...CLXs perhaps). It was simply awesome.

Do you think that my Genesis' would make for a good combo with that MC275?

I don't see why not. The amp has 4, 8 and 16 ohm taps so you can optimize the power transfer. McIntosh power and output transformers are legendary in quality. It's one of the reasons the vintage tube amps are so collectible. With the big power supply and output transformers, you should be able to easily power the speakers. I've used the Mc275 many times to drive my own Martin Logan CLS 2Z, and those have wicked impedance/phase characteristics.

You're welcome to take the amp home. Call me if you like to do that. I can even drop it off to you since I live in Oakville as well. PM/email me anytime

 

[Johnny Vinyl]

I don't see why not. The amp has 4, 8 and 16 ohm taps so you can optimize the power transfer. McIntosh power and output transformers are legendary in quality. It's one of the reasons the vintage tube amps are so collectible. With the big power supply and output transformers, you should be able to easily power the speakers. I've used the Mc275 many times to drive my own Martin Logan CLS 2Z, and those have wicked impedance/phase characteristics.

You're welcome to take the amp home. Call me if you like to do that. I can even drop it off to you since I live in Oakville as well. PM/email me anytime

Thank you very much for your kind offer Adrian, but I'm not in the market for a new amp at the moment. However, should that change I'll be happy to take you up on your offer.

 

[Adrian Low]

Anytime

 

[Bill Stevenson]

I would like to thank everyone for responding to my question. I have decided to go with CJ LP125sa+ and ET5. This was a big decision. I had never even considered CJ before, owned many Mc pieces over the years and in fact sold Mc for two different dealers, one in Seattle and the other in San Diego, many years ago.

 

[Adrian Low]

I would like to thank everyone for responding to my question. I have decided to go with CJ LP125sa+ and ET5. This was a big decision. I had never even considered CJ before, owned many Mc pieces over the years and in fact sold Mc for two different dealers, one in Seattle and the other in San Diego, many years ago.

Congrats Bill! Enjoy the system!

 

[LL21]

I would like to thank everyone for responding to my question. I have decided to go with CJ LP125sa+ and ET5. This was a big decision. I had never even considered CJ before, owned many Mc pieces over the years and in fact sold Mc for two different dealers, one in Seattle and the other in San Diego, many years ago.

I think that is a great call...you've got plenty of power now...enjoy and do pls post when its all set up. Enjoy!!

 

[Bill Stevenson]

Correction, the amp is an ARTsa. Long story.

 

[joeinid]

That will be an amazing amp!

I think you'll love it. 140 wpc of wonderful tube power.

Correction, the amp is an ARTsa. Long story.