Bunch of audio “experts” select their BEST products. Fun! What do you think?

[Atmasphere]

I think it's a mistake to generalize about bad reviews. some might be tainted, and others are bad synergy as mentioned, but some others are where a reviewer did not care for the product, or felt it was not performing to it's price point.

Well- the problem is telling when which is which, a very real issue! IMO, if the reviewer does not like it, simply don't mention it.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Well- the problem is telling when which is which, a very real issue! IMO, if the reviewer does not like it, simply don't mention it.

that is one perspective. another would be transparency of process, that once accepted for review that the review gets written. and that the reviewer has the support of the organization to write 'his' review. and the subscribers of the publication expect that process to be followed.

a matter of perspective.

i'm not suggesting that any review is 100% objective; it's not possible when we are talking about judging artistic reproduction performance. it's subjective in it's nature. and people, biases, and relationships are always a factor to some degree.

personally; I find it naïve that certain gear is given to certain reviewers and a negative (or at least a qualified) review is not expected. it shows a lack of proper self awareness and due diligence by a manufacturer. a bit of common sense is needed, but not always present.

 

[Empirical Audio]

A list of experts is a good start, as is a list of preferred components. The problem lies in the fact that there are a lot of excellent smaller companies out there, many of which never get on the radar of Stereophile or cannot afford their advertising fees. The second problem is that many reviewers, even for the large rags don't always have the best systems in the first place, so I don't want many of them to review my products. It's up to the consumer to find those reviewers that have exceptional systems, so they can get good advice. Manufacturers like myself usually tout their own products, so there is a conflict of interest there. Some can still be trusted however. Reviewers that I trust include:

Audiostream - Steve Plaskin and Michael Lavorgna.
Stereophile - John Atkinson
PSOnline - David Robinson


I have been attending shows for 15 years, mostly as an exhibitor, but I also get to hear a lot of other companies products. Only a few components and speakers have impressed me at these shows. One of these was Vaporsound.com (Vapor Audio) which makes some magnificent speakers that are truly giant-killers. Another was the Plasmatron AC regulator from VHAudio.com. None of these experts has likely ever heard of either.

Steve N.
Empirical Audio

 

[NorthStar]

What is an audio "expert"?

 

[Empirical Audio]

What is an audio "expert"?

To me, an expert is not a reviewer or someone with a lot of experience. It's someone with a lot of technical knowledge AND experience. JA of Stereophile is one of these.

Steve N.
Empirical Audio

 

[jeff1225]

First of all I'd like to say: thank god for audio shows. The ability to hear a lot of gear all at one time is critical for me. Second, I'd say that it's important to find that one reviewer that you agree with and hope that he/she demos something you're interested in.

 

[Al M.]

First of all I'd like to say: thank god for audio shows. The ability to hear a lot of gear all at one time is critical for me. Second, I'd say that it's important to find that one reviewer that you agree with and hope that he/she demos something you're interested in.

The problem is only that a lot of the gear sounds suboptimal at shows, sometimes severely so. If something sounds great at shows, that's worth paying attention to since the system must be really good, if something sounds average or even bad, it may not mean a thing.

Bad AC power, apparently common under show conditions, can kill the best system, and so can bad acoustics. Component mismatching and other issues aside.

 

[NorthStar]

To me, an expert is not a reviewer or someone with a lot of experience. It's someone with a lot of technical knowledge AND experience. JA of Stereophile is one of these.

Steve N.
Empirical Audio

Agreed.

 

[DSkip]

that is one perspective. another would be transparency of process, that once accepted for review that the review gets written. and that the reviewer has the support of the organization to write 'his' review. and the subscribers of the publication expect that process to be followed.

a matter of perspective.

i'm not suggesting that any review is 100% objective; it's not possible when we are talking about judging artistic reproduction performance. it's subjective in it's nature. and people, biases, and relationships are always a factor to some degree.

personally; I find it naïve that certain gear is given to certain reviewers and a negative (or at least a qualified) review is not expected. it shows a lack of proper self awareness and due diligence by a manufacturer. a bit of common sense is needed, but not always present.

I read his statement a little differently but maybe it wasn't what he meant. If there are dozens of 'good' reviews out there for products because they threw money or perks at the publication/reviewer, then its not even a fair game to play in. Getting a bad review is that much more devastating to a company when it might be a mismatch with the system or simply the right product for the wrong reviewer.

At RMAF, I got a glimpse at the way the press operates like I never have before. I know at AXPONA I'll be approaching things much differently. I won't mention any specifics, but some things were quite shocking to me.

 

[caesar]

Lee,
I won't be surprised one bit if you are right about many of the pieces. But at the same time it shows herd mentality and groupthink.

All of the above are probably true.

 

[caesar]

...

At RMAF, I got a glimpse at the way the press operates like I never have before. I know at AXPONA I'll be approaching things much differently. I won't mention any specifics, but some things were quite shocking to me.

Whenever I see reviewers at shows, other than a few hard-working guys like Serenius and Atkinson from Stereophile, most are hanging out together. There is a clique of Wilsonians hanging together, a clique of Magicoans chatting it up, etc.

Observing these groups operate doesn't build a lot of confidence. No surprise there is a fukc the audio fan culture. No wonder the hobby is dying. But those guys are partying it up, while getting large discounts and long term loans on gear.

 

[Lee]

First of all I'd like to say: thank god for audio shows. The ability to hear a lot of gear all at one time is critical for me. Second, I'd say that it's important to find that one reviewer that you agree with and hope that he/she demos something you're interested in.

Generally agree...but I find there are are a select group of reviewers I like. Then based on their input I come up with a "short list" then I audition those components and judge for myself.

 

[Lee]

The problem is only that a lot of the gear sounds suboptimal at shows, sometimes severely so. If something sounds great at shows, that's worth paying attention to since the system must be really good, if something sounds average or even bad, it may not mean a thing.

Bad AC power, apparently common under show conditions, can kill the best system, and so can bad acoustics. Component mismatching and other issues aside.

Honestly, I have to differ here as one who goes to a lot of shows. Some observations from 14 years at RMAF and others:

1. Great gear sounds great at shows by and large. Many of the better firms either know how to so setup or hire guys like Jim Smith and Stirling Trayle to get it right.

2. Hotel power sucks like most power (I know this since I do location recordings) but a good line conditioner solves this and good people like PS Audio lend out that gear.

3. Hotel rooms have bad acoustics but you know what, that's not an excuse since setup guys are at work and many mfrs uses the same room year-in year-out and figure out what needs to be done.

4. The biggest sound problems come from using really bad gear like Scaena speakers (fortunately PS Audio hated them and moved to the much better Focal) and Ayre electronics or have really bad synergy which is sadly a bigger issue. Fundamentals matter like primarily speaker-amp pairings. How's that for honesty.

 

[Lee]

Whenever I see reviewers at shows, other than a few hard-working guys like Serenius and Atkinson from Stereophile, most are hanging out together. There is a clique of Wilsonians hanging together, a clique of Magicoans chatting it up, etc.

Observing these groups operate doesn't build a lot of confidence. No surprise there is a fukc the audio fan culture. No wonder the hobby is dying. But those guys are partying it up, while getting large discounts and long term loans on gear.

There is a fellowship in audio reviewing. It's surprisingly hard work and we generally get paid peanuts for it unless we are at the top of the field like Fremer or Guttenberg.

We hang out because our colleagues become good friends. But we also tend to cover different categories of gear at a show and sometimes certain floors at a show.

There are some reviewers who focus on certain big name brands from Wilson to Magico to Audio Research. Part of this is due to mfr trust that they will do a good job and/or be favorably disposed to their products. Some of this is that the reviewer may have a long history with the brand in terms of reviewing and understand what they are trying to do. I guess one could argue some level of bias there. And I would argue one should always be aware of those who always like a certain brand and be naturally skeptical. That said, ARC gets great reviews because they make damn good products.

One sad reality is that lesser-known brands have trouble breaking out of the box. At PTA, we try to find "smaller brands" that offer up good sound and amplify what they are doing. This is a good moral thing to do but honestly the economics don't always work as even junior audiophiles gravitate to the bigger brands and want more coverage there. Still, some break through. Tekton speakers may be a recent example of that although I have some issues with the phased array.

As for reviewers getting special discounts, that has been part of the business. Once reviewed the manufacturer cannot resale at MSRP so they have a dilemma as it is now used. If the reviewer liked the product and preferred to keep it, why not offer an accommodation price? They work in the industry and arguably should get dealer pricing. What some don't know is that these deals often have restrictions on reselling, etc. In any event, at a major site, most gear gets returned back to the mfr.

I just try to call it as I see it. I have huge levels of enthusiasm for great gear and I hope that shows in my writing. And with my consulting and recording background I am especially interested in new business models and areas where pro audio and consumer converge.

 

[Barry2013]

Thanks Lee for such a refreshing and real world perspective.

 

[rblnr]

Honestly, I have to differ here as one who goes to a lot of shows. Some observations from 14 years at RMAF and others:


4. The biggest sound problems come from using really bad gear like Scaena speakers (fortunately PS Audio hated them and moved to the much better Focal) and Ayre electronics or have really bad synergy which is sadly a bigger issue. Fundamentals matter like primarily bey speaker-amp pairings. How's that for honesty.

Everybody's entitled to theirs. Can't tell you how wrong I think you are on the Scaenas. Did the room w/PS at the last Chicago show (and the one year before which one several 'best ofs') -- I'm a PS dealer and fan btw, but the reality of the moving on by PS is not really for the reasons you suggest.

 

[Empirical Audio]

Whenever I see reviewers at shows, other than a few hard-working guys like Serenius and Atkinson from Stereophile, most are hanging out together. There is a clique of Wilsonians hanging together, a clique of Magicoans chatting it up, etc.

Observing these groups operate doesn't build a lot of confidence. No surprise there is a fukc the audio fan culture. No wonder the hobby is dying. But those guys are partying it up, while getting large discounts and long term loans on gear.

The last RMAF I exhibited at had a Wilson room next door to mine. You had to have an invitation to even get into the room....

BTW, The room on the other side had Scaenas driven by Vivaldi stack. Sounded quite good, but I still liked my room better.

Most manufacturers are very nice, but there are exceptions, which you learn fairly quickly. The unfriendly ones are almost always the big brands that advertise in TAS or Stereophile. Then there are competitors that respect you and even appreciate the competition, and others that hate you. I like the Bryston guys for instance and have shared music with them before.

Then there is the room partner from hell, just like the neighbor from hell. They expect you to pay for their cartage, arrive late and leave early. Been there too.

As for rooms, most of them can be made to sound very good. I have not noticed power issues ever at any show in 15 years, but my gear does not require huge amperage either. There is usually a bass-loud spot in the room, mostly in the doorway. If you look at how few stereo stores are able to put together a good sounding system, it's little surprise that exhibitors at shows can't do it. At a typical show, I usually find about 4-6 rooms out of 150-300 that sound good.

As for reviewers, they are the kings of shows and they know it. They are not too likely to be chummy when they have a lot of turf to cover and after all, they are the judges. Some are really nice people though, that have good ears and can identify a good sound when they hear it. They of course hold back on getting too emotional, but if they show up in your room 2 or 3 times, you know that's a good thing.

Steve N.
Empirical Audio

 

[jeff1225]

The problem is only that a lot of the gear sounds suboptimal at shows, sometimes severely so. If something sounds great at shows, that's worth paying attention to since the system must be really good, if something sounds average or even bad, it may not mean a thing.

Bad AC power, apparently common under show conditions, can kill the best system, and so can bad acoustics. Component mismatching and other issues aside.

Al,
If the gear sounds sub-optimal at shows, I blame the company that set up the room. Shows are the great equalizer, if one system sounds good and the next system sounds like crap, I can't blame the room, I have to blame the company. Ban AC power: bring a conditioner. Bad acoustics: learn how to set up a system. Component mismatching: learn how to match components with YOUR OWN equipment.

 

[Al M.]

Al,
If the gear sounds sub-optimal at shows, I blame the company that set up the room. Shows are the great equalizer, if one system sounds good and the next system sounds like crap, I can't blame the room, I have to blame the company. Ban AC power: bring a conditioner. Bad acoustics: learn how to set up a system. Component mismatching: learn how to match components with YOUR OWN equipment.

Jeff, I tend to agree, except perhaps on one point. What if the current available across all rooms in combination is limited? Then a power conditioner will do nothing. A high-power amp starved for power may sound thin. Under those conditions, systems with efficient speakers that do not draw much current may fare better than 'behemoth' systems.

 

[Lee]

Everybody's entitled to theirs. Can't tell you how wrong I think you are on the Scaenas. Did the room w/PS at the last Chicago show (and the one year before which one several 'best ofs') -- I'm a PS dealer and fan btw, but the reality of the moving on by PS is not really for the reasons you suggest.

I love the new PS Audio gear. The Chicago PS/Scaena did win some Best Of awards but the sound was genuinely atrocious. I can only suspect some reviewers were overly impressed with the cost of the gear in the room or had severe hearing loss.

Again, just calling it as I see it but I will tell you I had a lot of friends and reviewers who I know have good ears tell me that they thought the same thing at that show.