Brinkmann Balance.

[KeithR]

Hi awsmone, I had a AMG turntable on loan on a HRS platform and it has a low torque motor and I really did not like the sound of the table, it did not have the body and weight that my system needs. Your right, a table with a supension has that midbass prominence that my system likes. My search is for a table that has weight and authority and that is why I am looking at the Stabi M because of what some have said about its overall sound. It seems there are tradeoffs with all tables out there to some degree. One thing is for certain, I do not want my new table to sound like digital and sterile as I have heard some tables do.

I think Kronos Sparta maybe a good audition for you.

Ironically a friend of mine with the Palmer on my speakers (Devore Gibbon X) just moved to the AMG V12. Jack Roberts also uses the AMG and is the opposite of analytical, so system dependency is key here.

 

[awsmone]

Sprit, I live in the USA midwest and the one thing I do not like about the AF3 is the slow startup time to full platter speed and I will not have a chance to hear the Stabi M before I buy but from what you have said about it that may be the right one to replace my Basis table, I do like what I have heard about it.

Kuzma M has a good torquey dc motor, don’t think start uptime will be a problem

I do think you should try before you buy at this level, given you are trading in an outstanding table in the basis

When you get to this level,taste and system synergy become important

Also you need to think about the arm,which will go with it

To me it’s hard to go past the 4 point with the Kuzma m

If I went down the sp10r route, I would be thinking sme3012r,

Kronos are outstanding tables,but aren’t they above your price level ?

 

[Gary J]

I do not want to shock anyone but I had a Kronos Sparta for two weeks, Total Disaster! I have never in my life had a component in my system that was built to such subpar standards and that is putting it in the best light I can.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Gary, I believe the phrase is “cat amongst the pigeons”.

 

[spiritofmusic]

I don’t think you’ll have any complaints about Stabi M build quality. It’s right up there from reports.

 

[Gary J]

Spirit, I am not trying to start a debate with anyone on the kronos I am just being honest about what I went through with that table. Others may have had a completely opposite experience then I did.

 

[awsmone]

Hi Gary
Sorry you had a bad experience with Kronos
I am surprised but I don't doubt your personal experience
Was it related to setting it up or sound quality
I have spent quite a bit of time with Lois setting them up and even the dealer had issues that Lois easily resolved
However once fully operational the 3 I have experienced were all excellent though these were all the pro version

I have seen 4 pro version and one standard none of these were sub standard in build quality and there have been numerous review which as far as I know haven't mentioned this issue
What was the problem with build quality ?

 

[Gary J]

Hi awsmone, So many things, if I get into all that was wrong I feel this thread would hurt the company and I do not want to do that. I always want high end companies to succeed and I have sent videos and a comprehensive description of all the problems I had to Kronos so I hope this helps the company make a great table. This is the table I am looking at now even over the Technics SL-1000R because of what other people have said about its overall sound. The color is also my choice, I think it looks great in red. http://www.avmentor.gr/features/photos/munich_highend_2014/part_1/high_resolution/kuzma_stabi_m.jpg

 

[dan31]

The kuzma is a great choice. I think you will be very happy.

 

[awsmone]

+1

Great colour over black which is too much in such a big tt
With 4 point is wonderful combo

I have owned quite a few sp10s, and I think it will take a while to know where this new one sits in the tt pantheon

Plus I am still unsure about plinth and arm

Let us know how it pans out with the Muzma

 

[KeithR]

Hi awsmone, So many things, if I get into all that was wrong I feel this thread would hurt the company and I do not want to do that. I always want high end companies to succeed and I have sent videos and a comprehensive description of all the problems I had to Kronos so I hope this helps the company make a great table. This is the table I am looking at now even over the Technics SL-1000R because of what other people have said about its overall sound. The color is also my choice, I think it looks great in red. http://www.avmentor.gr/features/photos/munich_highend_2014/part_1/high_resolution/kuzma_stabi_m.jpg

Gary, have you heard a DD setup you like? If not, get the Kuzma. I think its that easy a decision.

Sorry the Kronos didn't work out for you - I think its in between DD/belt sound personally. The counter rotational platters give it drive. 47 Labs makes a cheaper version you might also take a look at, but no suspension.

 

[Gary J]

Here is a question that I need to ask, OK we have two turntables, one is a belt driven like a Kuzma Stabi M and the other is a Technics SL-1000R DD table, now both tables are set at 33.33 rpm and both do not slow down when the needle touches the record. Now both tables have the same arm and cartridge it seems to me everything being equal it almost has to be in the design of the platter unless I am missing something here. Has anyone figured this one out?

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Here is a question that I need to ask, OK we have two turntables, one is a belt driven like a Kuzma Stabi M and the other is a Technics SL-1000R DD table, now both tables are set at 33.33 rpm and both do not slow down when the needle touches the record. Now both tables have the same arm and cartridge it seems to me everything being equal it almost has to be in the design of the platter unless I am missing something here. Has anyone figured this one out?

first off, to really get into facts you need to use both drive types with otherwise similar designs. since that is not practical all we can do is generally listen to the various drive types and have opinions about it. similarly, when we describe that neither turntable changes speed when the needle drops it's important to add the word 'apparently'. it seems that the speed does not change when the needle drops since they are both set at 33.33 rpm and we don't see the numbers change. but our ears tell us maybe another story, the same when we get to highly modulated passages, the digital read out does not change but one is more linear and has greater ease on the peaks, the other gets a bit hard and congealed. same for sustains on piano, or horns. the digital read-out does not change. conversely there could be differences in the sense of drive or overall ease or space and naturalness from one type to another which don't show up as speed readout differences.

and in all these areas unless you have both together, or maybe the digital to play of the same recording, you would not hear these things.

but over time these drive types do fall into categories. as we move up the food chain, there are less and less drive type artifacts one can pick out......as execution overcomes approach limitations. then it's only when really pushed where those differences might become evident. and drive dogma becomes irrelevant. but then at the very tip top......it becomes everything (maybe).

 

[Gary J]

Hi Mike, On the Kuzma you would think that if the motor can bring a 26.5 pound platter up to speed in 2-3 seconds it should breeze thru highly modulated passages without any problems even if it is a belt driven table.

 

[awsmone]

Stylus drag in modulated grooves is insignificant any decent tt motor can easily provide the torque required to overcome it

 

[Gary J]

Hi awsmone, that is what I was thinking so it all comes down to this, the Kuzma Stabi M is around $7100 more with a 4 point 12 inch arm then the Technics SL-1000R but the jury is still out on that table with it's arm. One thing I have found out is the arm on the Technics will not work well with a low compliance MC cartridge.

 

[awsmone]

I find it hard to believe the technics arm will exceed the 4 point but I could be wrong

 

[Gary J]

That is the big question, the 4 point arm is well known and highly respected by all but the arm on the Technics is unknown and no one knows how well it will live up to the quality of that table. I have heard the blank arm board for the Technics will cost around $2000 if you want to use a different arm.

 

[miniguy]

Hi awsmone, that is what I was thinking so it all comes down to this, the Kuzma Stabi M is around $7100 more with a 4 point 12 inch arm then the Technics SL-1000R but the jury is still out on that table with it's arm. One thing I have found out is the arm on the Technics will not work well with a low compliance MC cartridge.

Don’t know where you got that information from, but the new Technics arm is a new design and should be excellent with any MC cart, especially knowing that you can adjust the combined resonant freq by selecting a headshell of appropriate mass.

 

[Gary J]

miniguy, I got that information from someone that has that table in their possession right now but will not review the table in full until the final version comes out this spring.