Brandenburg Concertos - Which One do you Like?

LL21

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Dec 26, 2010
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Okay, so after some Amazon'ing with my wife, I decided what the heck...lets try a few different versions...some of my favourite music, and so why not have several different versions so if we are working at home one day or one night, we can play music we love without exactly hitting the infinite repeat button.

So far, we gotten what we think are a nice selection of the 20 or so we listened to [very briefly]. Our listening notes. Very interested in what others have found they really liked. Thanks for any 'must have' recommendations!

Trevor Pinnock - The English Concert (1983)
- sprightly, feels like an 'antiqued' version
- recording a bit thin

Trevor Pinnock - European Brandenburg Ensemble (2008)
- lively but more weighty with almost more consideration into the expression of each bar...like he took even more time on how to conduct the pieces
- much better recording quality
- a good mix of interpretation which your intellectual side can enjoy with the different phrases he has interpreted...but with the speed, sprightly and lively but old fashioned/antique sound that really kind of 'does it all'

Sir Neville Marriner Academy of St. Martin in the Fields
- slower, more measured
- my wife prefers the more measured interpretations
- clean delivery, more modern a bit fuller in sound (not recording but almost like there were more people, as is often the case in more modern orchestrations)

Benjamin Britten, English Chamber Orchestra
- Also slower, more measured pace
- My wife likes parts of it, but I am only just getting to know it, and feel like perhaps nice but neither here nor there?

Jordi Savall, Le Concert des Nations (including Fabio Biondi)
- super old-fashioned...makes you feel like you went back in a time chamber
- like you should have a wig and stockings on like JS Bach
- in that regard, quite cool
- he is a little heavy handed in his interpretation and this music is usually so fast and sprightly, I am still trying to figure out if its one for me
- but the atmospherics of the seriously old, antique sound is quite cool and fun to listen to for something different

Sir Christopher Hogwood, Academy of Ancient Music
- I have always enjoyed his work...Handel's Messiah is brilliant and remains one of my favourite versions
- one of the leaders in the ancient/original instrument movements, and well deserved
- With a system like mine, the sound recording remains quite full and I prefer it because you get both the roisin and vibration of the older feeling instrument (which has a gritty taste and texture that modern instruments tend to smooth over)...I kinda like that but totally person. I will say, in the wrong system, that grittiness of the older instrument just gets pushed thru as stridency and high pitched noise which is really irritating.

John Eliot Gardiner, English Baroque Solists (2009)
- I have always enjoyed his take on music, particularly things like Beethovens Missa Solemnis where many prefer the ultra-huge orchestration...I liked his very intellectual smaller scale approach which brought out different themes
- I think he has managed to do something similar here...I enjoy his personal approach
- Medium pace, quicker than the slower ones, and sprightly but in a way that feels more academic and (like Glenn Gould) he has left his intellectual stamp on the interpretation...since I like his take on music that for me is a good thing
 

LL21

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Oh, if I had to rank them (for now):

Gold
1 Trevor Pinnock (European Brandenburg Ensemble)
2 John Eliot Gardiner

Silver
- Sir Christopher Hogwood
- Neville Marriner

- Jordi Savall/Trevor Pinnock (1983)...prefer Pinnock interpretation, but Savall recording quality is superior

Bronze
- Benjamin Britten
 
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Soundproof

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Jan 13, 2012
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Egarr.
Thurston Dart
Karl Munchinger
I Musici
Philip Pickett

And Karl Ristenpart's is the best of them all, I think. I have crates of this work, and these are my favorites.

Look at the team Ristenpart put together:

Artist: Pierre Pierlot, Jean-Pierre Rampal, Robert Veyron-Lacroix, Georg-Friedrich Hendel, Hans-Martin Linde, Gunther Hoeller, Martin Oheim, Oscar Wunder

Conductor:
Karl Ristenpart
Orchestra:
Saar Chamber Orchestra
 
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LL21

Well-Known Member
Dec 26, 2010
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Egarr.
Thurston Dart
Karl Munchinger
I Musici
Philip Pickett

And Karl Ristenpart's is the best of them all, I think. I have crates of this work, and these are my favorites.

Look at the team Ristenpart put together:

Artist: Pierre Pierlot, Jean-Pierre Rampal, Robert Veyron-Lacroix, Georg-Friedrich Hendel, Hans-Martin Linde, Gunther Hoeller, Martin Oheim, Oscar Wunder

Conductor:
Karl Ristenpart
Orchestra:
Saar Chamber Orchestra

Good call! I have just ordered a Bach set by Ristenpart which includes all the Brandenburgs, as well as Art of the Fugue, the Orchestral Suites and 5 Other Concertos. His playing has a nobility that is rare today where you either get very period-type pieces or very intellectual music which delicately dissects the phrases. This is more old-school Furtwangler, etc where there is a formality which brings a nobility to the music. quite cool. thanks for that!
 

LL21

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Dec 26, 2010
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Having heard 3 of the Brandenburgs from Ristenpart thanks to Soundproof, my new provision ranking (need to hear Ristenpart all the way thru):

Gold
- Trevor Pinnock (European Brandenburg Ensemble) very deft, well interpreted, well timed and controlled and articulate antique version
- Ristenpart. Old school formal nobility...very rare to hear today...and a unique balance that allows you to hear much more contrapuntal themes playing one off the other rather than one main theme with backup from the other instruments
- John Eliot Gardiner great intellectual interpretation, a study in the phraseology of Bach which allows you to really understand someone who has studied the phrasing

Silver
- Neville Marriner

Bronze
- Sir Christopher Hogwood
- Jordi Savall/Trevor Pinnock (1983)...prefer Pinnock interpretation, but Savall recording quality is superior

Honorable Mention
- Benjamin Britten
 
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LL21

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Dec 26, 2010
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Egarr.
Thurston Dart
Karl Munchinger
I Musici
Philip Pickett

And Karl Ristenpart's is the best of them all, I think. I have crates of this work, and these are my favorites.

Look at the team Ristenpart put together:

Artist: Pierre Pierlot, Jean-Pierre Rampal, Robert Veyron-Lacroix, Georg-Friedrich Hendel, Hans-Martin Linde, Gunther Hoeller, Martin Oheim, Oscar Wunder

Conductor:
Karl Ristenpart
Orchestra:
Saar Chamber Orchestra

I have now managed to listen to Bach 1 and/or 3 for each of these...all very nice. Thank you!!! Always great to learn.

Wow...Dart was a trip! You felt like you were in a practice room with JS Bach...really small ensemble, super ancient sounding. Very different. practically medieval.
Egarr very clean ancient version, very well timed...prefer Trevor Pinnock's version by a nudge but both excellent
Munchinger - also more old school Furtwangler or Ristenpart, but not nearly as noble or formal as either, a little reedy sounding unfortunately and that's also partly his assemblage or use of players
I musici - formal but very 'straight up' without the nobility of playing that has such power as with Ristenpart
Pickett - very delicate playing, very delicate, quick and spry...prefer the strength of Pinnock, or the speed of Hogwood with his unique overlay that much of his music seems to bear

Thanks again! definitely excited to spend more time with the Ristenpart when it arrives.
 

RBFC

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Apr 20, 2010
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Haven't heard all the above contenders, but have seen Pinnock/EC and Hogwood both perform live. My nod goes to Pinnock, mostly because I like the way he plays the cadenza in #5. I also own the set from the Orchestra of the Age of Enlightenment, but haven't heard it recently & shouldn't offer comparative opinions.

Wonderful music.

Lee
 

dcc

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Here is my personal list:

Gustav Leonhardt - LP version originally released by Seon/RCA
The 2 versions by Nikolaus Harnoncourt though I a have a slight preference for the first version from 1964
La Petite Bande - Sigiwald Kuijken

And more recently, the version by Café Zimmermann.
 
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Soundproof

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It's wonderful to discover the variation in interpretation that is possible with the Brandenburg Concertos.I find them wholly engaging still, after listening to them for a lifetime. Over forty years since I first heard them.

My first exposure was this brilliant version, which I forgot to mention above:
http://www.amazon.com/Brandenburg-Concerti-4-6-J-S-Bach/dp/B00000275R

Anyone that's seen the movie Slaughterhouse 5 will have heard this version of the 4th Concerto as the steam train enters Dresden. The music hit me like a mallet over the head. Back then in 1972 I had to wait forever to get the record.

Casals and Serkin, not bad musicians, those.
 

Keith_W

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Here is my personal list:

Gustav Leonhardt - LP version originally released by Seon/RCA
The 2 versions by Nikolaus Harnoncourt though I a have a slight preference for the first version from 1964
La Petite Bande - Sigiwald Kuijken

And more recently, the version by Café Zimmermann.

I would agree with your first two recommendations - the Leonhardt and the Harnoncourt are my favourites. I am not a particular fan of Pinnock - I find his reading a little too fast and a little too superficial. Some of the concerti are meant to be dance-like. If they were to dance to Pinnock, they would be doing a Beyonce with none of the grace of the Baroque style.

I do have to take Harnoncourt to task for some of the strange decisions he makes with regards to instrumentation, for example the excessive prominence of the French Horn in No.4, but otherwise it is typical Harnoncourt - you either think he is a genius or an idiot, but with the Brandenburgs there is more genius than idiot.

Leonhardt gives a typically patient, grandfatherly reading. Every aspect of the performance is given the attention it deserves.

A couple of notable recordings you should consider - Ton Koopman (now hard to find), and Karl Richter. Many people don't like Karl Richter, but I love him :)
 

dcc

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A couple of notable recordings you should consider - Ton Koopman (now hard to find), and Karl Richter. Many people don't like Karl Richter, but I love him :)

Many thanks for your feedback. I forgot that I also had the version by Richter hidden somewhere. I will give it a try this evening:)

image.jpg
 

Keith_W

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Nice. Just make sure you turn your disc the right way up when you play it ;)

FWIW what I like about Richter is the discipline of his tempi. He avoids variation in tempo, and tends to use larger orchestral forces than what is typical with modern interpretations with original instruments (e.g. Gardiner, Harnoncourt, Koopman, Herreweghe, etc). Many commentators say that Richter comprehensively lost the argument and died an embittered man. However I do love his sober, uplifting interpretations. To me, that is Bach.
 

RBFC

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Nice. Just make sure you turn your disc the right way up when you play it ;)

FWIW what I like about Richter is the discipline of his tempi. He avoids variation in tempo, and tends to use larger orchestral forces than what is typical with modern interpretations with original instruments (e.g. Gardiner, Harnoncourt, Koopman, Herreweghe, etc). Many commentators say that Richter comprehensively lost the argument and died an embittered man. However I do love his sober, uplifting interpretations. To me, that is Bach.

Interestingly, this is what continues to draw me back to W. Kempff's Beethoven piano sonatas. His "metronomic" "by the book" interpretations allow the musical structure to emerge without so much ornamentation.

Lee
 

flez007

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I have the Decca CCIR 15ips from the DART/Philomusica - great performance!
 

LL21

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Wow...thanks for all these suggestions! My wife and I are quite enjoying this. So far she prefers slower more contemplative but still noble interpretations...Ristenpart is her favourite for Concerto 3 so far...
 

Soundproof

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I have the Decca CCIR 15ips from the DART/Philomusica - great performance!

You may also have the King Arthur that Dart collaborated on? Lewis conducting and the Philomusica playing. These are recording and performance miracles.

Poor Dart didn't get the credit he deserves for his influence on several leading conductors. Michael Nyman, Gardiner and Hogwood were all students of Dart, and the recording you mention is the first HIP recording. At the end of his life, Dart was helping Marriner on the Brandenburgs.

@lloydelee - I am fortunate to have a NM+ of the Nonesuch issue, and love that version, and nr. 3 in particular.
 

LL21

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Dec 26, 2010
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Just got the Ristenpart 6-CD 24bit remaster of his Bach works...remarkable. For me so far, as we listen to them...initial thoughts for me are they rival/surpass the latest Trevor Pinnock...and my wife categorically prefers Ristenpart so far. Beautiful sound too.
 

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